Alfa Romeo 159 2005

[Granturismo]

BMW has included the driver's weight or not? since the footnote 1 does mention it we need to consider the data for 159 + 75kg to have a real idea of how heavy 939 is.

it`s all in your eyes ...

[T a u r u s]

yes but not all liquids....the 159 din weight is full of all liquids full of tanks ready to drive...bmw declares a weight that has the 90% of the tank filled and we doesn't know if it is filled with weight...

Alfa 159 1.9/2.2JTS for examples has a ready to drive din weight of 1480/1490kgr...the DIN empty weight is of 1390/1400kgr...the empty EU weight of 159 1.9/2.2JTS is of 1465/1475kgr and the ready to drive EU weight is of 1555/1565kgr.

BMW declares an empty EU weight plus the 90% of the fuel tank filled(doen't specify other liquids filled)...the tank of the 3 series is of 60lt so with empty tank would had a weight of 54kgr in less...so the din empty weight of 320i is of 1320kgr -54kgr..1266kgr.

1.9JTS weights 1390kgr and 2.2JTS 1400kgr with the same normatives respected.

[Granturismo]

with the same normatives respected.

that`s the key word.

all manufacturers respect the same homologation procedure since all build their passenger cars M1 category) for the EU.

I suppose that some markting experts simply are NOT able to speak clearly enough about the conditions the car is in according to the EU regulations.

[DJTaurus]

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[DJTaurus]

Mr Taurus...Please answer my questions....

1)The article for Porche says for CE=ECE that it includes 68kgr for the driver and 7kgr of luggage...So Porche gives clearly as you said the 2 measurements...1)Din-2)Ece=Din+75kg......without mentioning anything about fuel tank or other liquids.As you said they are 2 ECE....First the kerb weight and secondly the empty dry weight...Porche uses the Empty dry weight...Am i right?

2)When you are mentioning the Kerb weight,can you give me any example of what kind of Liquids are we talking about and which is the weight of those liquids?

3)The article of Bmw says exactly 68kgr for the driver and 7kgr of luggage and 90% OF FUEL TANK!!So Bmw specifies [ECE=DIN+75KG]+90% FUEL TANK.....which is EU for Bmw...It does not mention anything about other liquids....So what kind of liquids are we talking about?You have made two categories for EU.....1)EU empty without liquids and Fuel tank(?) i guess which is ECE and....2)EU ready to drive which is ECE + liquids + 100% fuel tank....SO bmw's EU,which is DIN+75KG+90% FUEL TANK in which CATEGORY OF EU BELONGS??

4)So if i want to compare 159 1.9 with 320i(EU=ECE+90%) i must add the din empty/ready to drive(?) weight of 159 + 75 + 90% fuel tank.Do you know the weight of 90% fuel tank of 159?

But the comparison is sth imposible.....bercause we don't know if the DIN OF 320 is empty OR with liquids....Bmw does not specify anything....clever cheating...i prefer porche's clear statement!!!!!!!!!!!

Granturismo think of it....Taurus statement is the only Logical explaination!I can't think of sth else....Bmw says for 320i 0-100 in 9sec and it has been measured in 9.8sec from all the magazines.....the same thing goes for 330i.....6.9 from 6.3!!....All alfa romeo's except 156 my jts 2003 have been measured close to the official figures.It is obviously that Bmw is cheating or playing with numbers.

5)For my onw curiosity i am trying to find 159's weight compared to bmw's 3 Eu weight.

What i need to know is........

a)the weight of 90% fuel tank of 159.

b)the empty din weight you have given is without liquids and without fuel tanks compared to din ready to drive?

6)I think that liquids + 100% fuel tank are about 100kg....So 100kg-90% of 56kg(fuel tank as taurus said) =about 50kg=liquids...

So if bmw uses in EU the empty din(without liquids) we have... Din + 75kg + (90% of 56kg=50kg)=1390kg <=> Din + 75kg + 50kg=1390kg<=> Din empty of 320=1265Kg...AMAZING I FOUND THE SAME NUMBER WITH TAURUS....he gave 1266kg....So TAURUS-THE empty din weight you have given for 159 1.9 what kind of empty weight it is?....because din empty weight of 320i is of 1320kgr -54kgr..1266kgr. and for 159 din empty weight 1390/1400kgr

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Some thoughts...

320 EU=Din(we don't know what kind of Din...maybe empty without liquids) + 75kg + 90% fuel tank=1390kg

159 EU=Din(?) + 75kg + 90% fuel tank(?)

Fiat pdf for 159 1.9-(1480kg Din ready to drive) which is.....Liquids+100% fuel tank...

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[Granturismo]

Granturismo think of it....Taurus statement is the only Logical explaination!I can't think of sth else....Bmw says for 320i 0-100 in 9sec and it has been measured in 9.8sec from all the magazines.....the same thing goes for 330i.....6.9 from 6.3!!....All alfa romeo's except 156 my jts 2003 have been measured close to the official figures.It is obviously that Bmw is cheating or playing with numbers.

who cares really about the 0-100 measurement? acceleration 0-1km is far more important since you don't have to consider the additional shift from 2nd to 3rd gear for the 159.

nobody can beat BMW in 0-100km/h for how many years? I think at least 20 ...

[DJTaurus]

who cares really about the 0-100 measurement? acceleration 0-1km is far more important since you don't have to consider the additional shift from 2nd to 3rd gear for the 159.

nobody can beat BMW in 0-100km/h for how many years? I think at least 20 ...

....Ok but i compared 1.9jts with 320i when Taurus said that the right comparison is 1.9 vs future 318 and 320 vs 2.2jts......

All this years from 1997 when 156 was introduced,why the magazines compared 156 1.8 with 318(2.0) and 156 2.0ts with 320(2.2)?....the same thing happened with nowadays Gt coupe 2.0jts compared not with 318ci but with 320ci....All these years,journalists were comparing different things for bmw's favour......is this fair to you?....now it is alfa's turn to do the same-Revenge is a dish best served cold

i have driven both 318(2.0) and 320(2.2) and beleive me Gt coupe 1.8ts,Gt coupe 2.0jts despite have less cylinder are a lot faster engines,more torque and better reving......I would say that 318(2.0) is as fast as 156 1.6ts.

Also in Greece they tested Gt 2.0jts,MB sports coupe 230!! and 320ci in the track and Gt coupe was the fastest,1 turn behind was the strong Merc and a half lap behind was the bmw.

[T a u r u s]

EU empty=DIN empty/dry weight + 68kgr for driver +7kgr of luggage...

EU kerb=DIN ready to drive/kerb weight + 68kgr for driver +7kgr of luggage..

EU directive doesn't speak of 90% of the tank filled..in the DIN kerb weight 100% of fuel tank plus oil break liquids etc/ must be filled...BMW announced the EU empty weight plus the 90% of the tank filled...

159 2.2JTS is the rival of the 320i and 159 1.9JTS is the rival of the 318i 2.0.....just use the same measure...for years you compared the 2.2lt 320i and the 2.0lt 318i with the 2lt and 1.8lt 156...i don't understand why now...you change the measure ever in disadvantage if alfa...that's not correct...

1858cm3 159 1.9JTS 160cv/190nm is the rival of the 1995cm3 318i 129cv/180nm(A4 2.0,C180 Kompressor etc.)

2198cm3 159 2.2JTS 185cv/230nm is the rival of the 1995cm3 320i 150cv/200nm(A4 1.8T,C200 Kompressor,X type 2LITRE 2.1V6 etc.)

as in the past..

the 1995cm3 318i 143cv/200nm was the rival of the 1747cm3 156 1.8T.SPARK 140cv/167nm

and the 2171cm3 170cv/210nm was the rival of the 1970cm3 156 2.0JTS 165cv/206nm...

if BMW regress in power torque and in the 320i in cubature is their problem...the same measure have to be respected....

Le stesse misure si rispettano..non possiamo usare due pesi e due misure sempre a favore della BMW....e addesso mi sembra il paragone anche equilibrato perche BMW e' in vantaggio come cilindrata nella 318i/1.9JTS mentre alfa in vantaggio come cilindrata nelle 2.2JTS/320i....

[daytona]

Serpeggiano i "ma" sulla stampa. E' bella ma...è pesante, non è la più scattante, è ingombrante ecc. Perplessità sulle motorizzazioni non sono neanche più sottintese. I prezzi sembrano alti ma manca ancora la prova del controvalore percepito. Mi chiedo se siamo pronti a questo cambio di rotta. Siamo sicuri che (noi) si voleva un'auto bellissima ma molto più grande, più cara e con una connotazione più da "berlina" tradizionale più che da agile "quasi coupè" come lo è la 156?

[bialbero]

domande che più che legittime e che senza dubbio serpeggano nella maggior parte degli alfisti, non solo irriducibili, spesso i più critici e meno disposti al genere di compromessi (leggi motori NON alfa)