Credete che arrivera presto la Thesis V8??

[Eduard]

Thesis con cherchi 18", pelle rossa, titanio...non lo so, ma credo che la V8 sta presta a arrivare...

cualcuno sa cuclcosa di piu??

[Guest Artemis]

Thesis con cherchi 18", pelle rossa, titanio...non lo so, ma credo che la V8 sta presta a arrivare...

cualcuno sa cuclcosa di piu??

Considerando comunque che mi è ancora ignoto come facciano a sistemare un V8 in senso trasversale in modo che la macchina sterzi ancora...

...lo spero anche io... :wink:

ciao ciao!!

[Guest T a u r u s]

..l'XV8 e' un motore molto compatto e meno pesante dell'attuale V6 Alfa Romeo.......tra l'altro anche il Northstar sarebbe adatto anche se meno compatto del XV8(Seville,Deville,Eldorado lo montano trasversalmente...).....si e' scelto il primo che e' attualmente in fase di collaudo(e' un propulsore nuovo con basamento studiato da Orbital e testata e sviluppo fatto da Fiat Powertrain)comunque prove con Thesis dotate di propulsore V8(Northstar all'inizio e poi XV8)si fanno da 2 anni......

[Guest Artemis]

..l'XV8 e' un motore molto compatto e meno pesante dell'attuale V6 Alfa Romeo.......tra l'altro anche il Northstar sarebbe adatto anche se meno compatto del XV8(Seville,Deville,Eldorado lo montano trasversalmente...).....si e' scelto il primo che e' attualmente in fase di collaudo(e' un propulsore nuovo con basamento studiato da Orbital e testata e sviluppo fatto da Fiat Powertrain)comunque prove con Thesis dotate di propulsore V8(Northstar all'inizio e poi XV8)si fanno da 2 anni......

che dire... ciò mi confrorta...

Questo propulsore di che cubatura è?

monoblocco in alluminio vero?

è un V proprio o un V scalato? (come ai sono scelte che implicano molto della compattezza)

ciao ciao!!

[Guest T a u r u s]

Opel Signum² Concept Car Features GM's Innovative XV8 Concept Engine

XV8 Showcases Future Technologies In A Compact, Fuel Efficient Package

FRANKFURT, Germany - The Opel Signum² concept car, debuting at the Frankfurt International Motor Show (IAA), features General Motors' innovative global V8 concept engine (called XV8) showcasing several advanced technologies in a fuel efficient, V6-like package.

The all-new, technology-intensive XV8 concept engine provides the power and smoothness of a premium V8 and the fuel efficiency of a V6. Yet it fits into an engine bay sized for the width of a V6 and the length of a four-cylinder.

The all-aluminum 4.3-liter XV8 utilizes a unique three-valves-per-cylinder combustion chamber configuration, supporting the optimization of an air-assisted direct fuel injection system. The configuration features an industry first: two camshafts in the block. The XV8 produces 224 kW (300 horsepower) and 400 Nm (295 lb-ft) of torque.

"The XV8 is one of the most technologically advanced V8s in the world," said Fritz Indra, GM Powertrain executive director of advanced engineering. "It was our goal to create a compact, fuel efficient V8 that would showcase many advanced technologies all working together. We are learning from this innovative approach, in the same way that many of the early GM engine pioneers experimented with technologies that have made GM a leader in engines for the last century. Although we have no current plans for production in its entirety, many of the technologies are under development for future engine programs."

Packaging, power, fuel efficiency and emissions, along with a combination of advanced technologies, drove the development of the all-new XV8 starting from a "clean sheet" approach.

"There is no V8 in existence that combines air-assisted direct injection gasoline, variable inlet systems, cam phasing and Displacement on Demand technology, especially in such a compact package," said Indra. "Normally, engineers try to apply new technology to existing engines, but this often results in compromises because you cannot bring the injector or spark plug in the best position or because you must rely on the existing valve angle, for example. An existing engine could not have worked for all this new technology because the whole combustion process is different between multipoint fuel injection and direct injection. We could only get the best results by designing the combustion chamber, and thus the whole engine, around the best position for the injector and the spark plug."

High Technology Features

Goals for XV8 development, in addition to the compact packaging and outstanding fuel efficiency, included 224 kW (300 hp) capability in a performance car-type application. The XV8 runs a very high compression ratio-10.75:1-with regular grade gasoline. To achieve that type of world-class, direct-injection performance while meeting fuel efficiency demands in the smallest package size possible, GM engineers integrated many different advanced technologies.

"General Motors has a rich heritage of powertrain innovation," said Alan W. Hayman, GM Powertrain program manager for the XV8. "The XV8 concept is another example of GM demonstrating its ability to generate reliable, technology-intensive designs as advanced as any manufacturer in the world."

The XV8 serves as an outstanding showcase of the integration of several advanced technologies into one compact, high-performance V8. Some of the technologies and capabilities of XV8 include: air-assisted direct injection gasoline; Displacement on Demand; two cams in-block with variable inlet valve timing and cam phasing; narrow 75-degree bank angle; active inlet manifold; twin oil pumps; and an integrated air compressor.

Air-assisted Direct Injection Gasoline

The XV8 was designed to accommodate a combustion chamber that utilizes a direct fuel injection system. It features the air-assisted direct injection gasoline system from Orbital Engine Corp. of Australia. The system is integrated into three-valve cylinder heads and dual cams in the block.

"Using three valves-two inlets and one exhaust-gives you more room in the combustion chamber for optimal positioning of the injector and the spark plug, vertical and nearly central in the chamber," Indra said.

Having two cams in the block rather than dual overhead cams provides considerable packaging benefits and combined with the direct injection fuel system, contributes to the XV8's outstanding performance numbers.

"Having this very good combustion chamber process in the small XV8 also lets us re-evaluate the catalytic converters," Indra said. "We made the combustion itself so effective that we can reduce the after-treatment system. That was another prerequisite for the engine and another reason for the clean, complete burn."

Displacement on Demand

GM's Displacement on Demand technology was designed into the XV8 from the start. Displacement on Demand allows the V8 to shut down half of its cylinders seamlessly at predetermined times to significantly reduce fuel consumption without hampering performance.

The XV8's unique twin oil pump design allows the engine to run Displacement on Demand at idle, since the system and cam phasing system have their own dedicated oil pump, which provides enough pressure to deactivate the cylinders at idle and reactivate them immediately upon throttle engagement.

In May 2001, GM announced that it will implement Displacement on Demand in its trucks and SUVs beginning in 2004.

Two cams in-block with variable inlet valve timing and cam phasing The use of a camshaft "phaser" separates the timing functions of the intake and exhaust valves. This is accomplished in the XV8 engine by having two in-block camshafts, one for inlet operation and one for exhaust. The camshafts are located in a vertical plane above the crankshaft and parallel to its center of rotation. The intake camshaft is the lower camshaft and is approximately in the center of the block. The exhaust cam is positioned above the intake. Because the intake camshaft rather than the exhaust is "phased," the XV8's camshaft drive provides the ability to better modify and enhance full-load engine torque characteristics. In the stratified combustion mode of operation, it can be used to increase the charge dilution by advancing the intake cam timing. The set-up reduces friction and fuel consumption, particularly at idle and part-load, and also contributes to the engine's outstanding low-end torque.

"With the cams in the block," Indra said, "the valve timing precision is better than with a DOHC configuration. The different heat levels with long belts and chains in a DOHC set-up always changes the valve timing."

Having two camshafts in the engine block with the ability to "phase" one of the cams is unique to GM.

Narrow 75-degree bank angle

The XV8's narrow 75-degree bank angle and very small cylinder heads result in an overall engine compactness that is revolutionary. "The 75-degree V8 is a packaging solution that's typical of race cars," said Hayman.

Active inlet manifold

The air-assist direct injection system requires port geometries that generate a minimum of "in-cylinder" motion when the system is operating in stratified mode. During homogeneous operating conditions, in-cylinder motion is required in similar fashion to port fuel injected engines. The inlet manifold design supports these design objectives to achieve maximum fuel economy. The resulting design also allows the engine to deliver a broad torque band suited to spirited driving styles, supports the peak power objectives, and fully accommodates the Displacement on Demand system.

Twin oil pumps/Balance shaft assembly

The XV8 is unique not only in that it has two oil pumps, but also in that the engine's balance shaft doubles as the oil pump drive shaft. The former allows for such functions as cam phasing and Displacement on Demand at idle and the latter contributes to the engine's compact packaging.

Because the XV8 requires extensive hydraulic function, two oil pumps were used in a serial fashion. If the lubrication system was designed with the typical single oil pump, its displacement would have to be substantially increased to provide minimum pressure to the entire engine. The primary pump supplies low pressure filtered oil to the bearings, valve lifters and secondary pump inlet. The secondary pump acts to intensify the pressure for supply to the cam phaser and Displacement on Demand systems. In doing this, parasitic power consumption to the oil pump is minimized.

Because of packaging constraints, the oil pump drive was combined with the balance shaft assembly. To get the necessary 1:1 counter-rotation of the balance shaft, it is driven by a helical gear pressed on the rear of the crankshaft.

"The drive for the pumps is the balance shaft, which has to go opposite engine rotation at engine speed because of our narrow bank angle," Hayman said. "So we get the balance shaft basically for free and this is all packaged in the sump that bolts to the bottom of the block. That is unique. Also, placing the oil pumps at each end of the balance shaft helps to damp vibrations."

Integrated air compressor

The XV8's air compressor is integrated into the engine assembly. "That's another unique aspect of the engine," Hayman said. "The air compressor is part of the engine assembly itself, not just a component bolted onto the accessory drive somewhere as a stand alone pump. It's integrated to the back of the cylinder head and all of the fluids are transferred through this interface. This avoids the requirement for the myriad of hoses that would have traditionally been required including the avoidance of having to run a separate air-assist rail."

"Small on the outside, big on the inside" The combination of these and other technologies results in one of the most technologically advanced V8 engines. Its performance is robust, its fuel efficiency is world-class and its compact size embodies the philosophy that drove the development of the XV8: "small on the outside, big on the inside."

"Starting with a clean sheet of paper allows engineers to see the whole picture for the first time-not just power or high revolutions or any one specific goal," said Indra. "They really see the requirements of the future and designed the engine around those requirements. It gets excellent fuel economy and has clean emissions, but above all, it satisfies the main requirement anyone has of an engine: It will perform."

Le versioni destinate a Fiat/Lancia/Alfa Romeo avrano un raggio dai 330/350cv ai 450cv+ delle supersportive Alfa Romeo.....e' un propulsore molto compatto anche se e' un V8 e' lungo come un 4cilindri e largo come un V6.......

[Guest Abarth03]

...Considerando comunque che mi è ancora ignoto come facciano a sistemare un V8 in senso trasversale in modo che la macchina sterzi ancora...

...lo spero anche io... :wink:

ciao ciao!!

Mah io non penso che questo problema sussista...anche la Thema 8.32 montava un 8 cilindri a V trasversale di origine Ferrari, e non mi pare di ricordare che avesse problemi al raggio di sterzata...

[Guest 126/131]

speriamo che arrivi presto :wink:

[stev66]

Caro Taurus, ho letto con attenzione la presentazione del 4.3 litri V8 ed avrei alcune domande da farti:

1) L'angolo tra bancate di 75 gradi riduce gli ingombri, ma squilibra le forze di primo e secondo ordine ( bilanciate con il 90 gradi ); gli alberi a camme centrali fungono mica anche da contralberi di equilibratura ?

2) Le versioni per AR avranno 4 valvole per cilindro o tre come le normali ?

3) Le versioni per AR avranno la doppia accensione ?

4) Quando si parla di "compressore integrato nel blocco" significa che non esistono versioni aspirate ?.

5) Le versioni per AR saranno DOHC per bancata o adettarenna la stessa nuova ( e strana ) architettura ?

6) Avresti mica qualche schema piu' dettagliato del motore ? Ammetto che questa strana architettura mi intriga... 8)

Grazie e ciao

[Guest Artemis]

Ci stavo pensando anche io...

ora, non vorrei offendere... ma non sarà mica un motore quello vero?

Alberi a camme nel basamento?

V di 75°??

per forza è compatto!!

scusate il termine, ma è un cesso di motore!!!

O in fiat fanno i miracoli (ne dubito) o devo seriamente sperare che la Thesis non adotti mai un COSO del genere.

e voglio anche sperare che i motori che adotterà l'alfa non siano come quest'affare, ma siano dei V6 decenti.

ovvero con V di 60° e con gli assi a camme (due per bancata, non due in tutto) in testa!!

non vorreiessere offensivo, ma se tutti i motori plurifrazionati che importiamo che sono così, avevo il sentore che non ci si sarebbe dovuto fidare dei motori fatti inizialmente per mercato americano.

li sono tecnologicamente indietro di 20 anni, nell'impostazione, e le foto postate qui sopra da Taurus lo dimostrano.

ciao ciao!!

[Guest 126/131]

Ci stavo pensando anche io...

ora, non vorrei offendere... ma non sarà mica un motore quello vero?

Alberi a camme nel basamento?

V di 75°??

per forza è compatto!!

scusate il termine, ma è un cesso di motore!!!

O in fiat fanno i miracoli (ne dubito) o devo seriamente sperare che la Thesis non adotti mai un COSO del genere.

e voglio anche sperare che i motori che adotterà l'alfa non siano come quest'affare, ma siano dei V6 decenti.

ovvero con V di 60° e con gli assi a camme (due per bancata, non due in tutto) in testa!!

non vorreiessere offensivo, ma se tutti i motori plurifrazionati che importiamo che sono così, avevo il sentore che non ci si sarebbe dovuto fidare dei motori fatti inizialmente per mercato americano.

li sono tecnologicamente indietro di 20 anni, nell'impostazione, e le foto postate qui sopra da Taurus lo dimostrano.

ciao ciao!!

............se è veramente così non capisco cosa ci guadagna la fiat........ : ..............................speriamo aggiornino il motore........ :wink: COMUNQUE CI SIAMO FATTI FREGARE UN'ALTRA VOLTA................................................

ecco,io lo sapevo :wink: :cry: 8)