Nissan GT-R: per Porsche 25" più lenta al 'Ring

[Dodicicilindri]

Riporto questo messaggio di Alfa_JTD:

A proposito di tempi al Ring e Nissan GT-R, come dicevo da tempo...leggete un pò qua:

Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.

Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.

I miei sospetti trovano così conferma.

Voi che ne pensate?

[Matteo B.]

Niente, come un tempo messi li per curiosità, dalla valenza al pari del 7.29.. senza valore di confronto.

[F40 LeMans]

beh insomma..... io mi pongo dubbi anche su quei giri.....

Modificato 2 Ottobre 2008 da F40 LeMans

[Matteo B.]

2) non vedo perchè il pacchetto Gt2 non possa permettersi 20 sec meno di 911 Turbo.

[F40 LeMans]

leggi sopra....troppo lenta gt2...forse era DAVVERO stock..."turbo7-38" invece era "messa a punto" tanto quanto "gtr7-29"

[Matteo B.]

Ok. ma 7.32 è in linea confrontando a 911 Turbo, anche rispetto al fattore coppia raffrntando a Carrera GT.

IMHO il 7.44 cade a pennello.

NN so più cosa dire.

[F40 LeMans]

ok......però adesso non torna il 7 e 54 di gtr "rivista" da porsche ...

IMHO gli han sgonfiato le gomme e gli han messo la "normale" :clapHappy:b26

NON vedo perchè 997 Turbo debba esser così ad un passo da 996 GT2? dopotutto.... Happy 8 secondi ci stanno.

(sopra) scusa credevo si parlasse di 997 turbo.....

no il 7.54 di Gt-r per Porsche per me è un tempo prendendo in esame, una condizione non efficente, magari in condizione di rodaggio (gomme, freni motore..) inz lascia il tempo che trova... IMHO

Modificato 2 Ottobre 2008 da F40 LeMans

[ItalianDriver]

Lol.....

[Matteo B.]

Risposta di Nissan a stretto giro di posta.

metto il link.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=57410&vf=12

Nissan defends legitimacy of GT-R supercar's record lap time against suspicions raised by rival Porsche. By ANDREW HEASLEY in Paris.

Nissan GT-R

Nissan has hit back at suspicions raised by Porsche this week that the record Nurburgring lap time set by the GT-R supercar was achieved in anything other than a standard showroom-specification car.

The matter has reached top brass at Nissan, with its European spokesman at the Paris motor show today confirming the matter has gone ''quite high'' up in the company.

A senior Porsche engineer, August Achleitner, who supervises the development of all 911 sports cars, sparked controversy when he told Australian journalists at the launch of the new 911 Targa in Verona, Italy, this week that they were unable to replicate the record 7 minute 29 second lap time that Nissan claimed the GT-R set in April.

In the hands of a Porsche chassis engineer, the GT-R was 20 seconds slower than a 911 GT2 and 16 seconds slower than a Porsche 911 Turbo.

Achleitner questioned whether the GT-R was running a standard set-up on road tyres or perhaps something more track-oriented.

“Quite simply we're not going to get into a war of words with Porsche,” said Nissan's European spokesman Neil Reeve. “The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tyres which are available to customers in the showroom.They're not trick tyres – absolutely standard tyres, normal road tyres.

“The GT-R comes with Bridgestone and Goodyear (Dunlop). One tyre gives slightly better times around the 'Ring.

“We did it on Dunlop. They're available with the car,” he said.

He was at a loss to explain the disparity over the lap time differences.

“I don't know, honestly I can't explain. I don't think it's for us to explain how they didn't match our time,” Mr Reeve said.

“We absolutely maintain (that) Tochio Suzuki - the chief test driver on the GT-R program pounded thousands of laps - he got to know every inch of Nurburgring (circuit) and how the car performs on the Nurburgring and hence set that fabulous lap. More than that, I can't speculate. I can't explain why they couldn't match the time.”

“We maintain that ... nothing special was done to the car.”

He conceded that the controversy might play on the minds of potential GT-R buyers. Fast lap times of the famous 21-kilometre German circuit are increasingy being used by car companies for bragging rights over performance and engineering prowess.

“The people who'd buy a GT-R or 911 Turbo are not the type of people to make a purchase like that lightly. They going to do an incredible amount of research, they're going to read every single road test that's available in every magazine which is on the internet and they're going to draw their own conclusion. Will it put doubt in their mind? They might find it surprising. In our experience in Europe, the GT-R has widely matched, at least, if not beaten, the 911 Turbo on various track tests. They can draw their own conclusions.

“We think its performance speaks for itself,'' he said.

Reeve wouldn't rule out the possibility of a rematch for the world to see.

“We're considering our options. We're not saying more than that,” he said.

“This (Porsche's questioning of Nissan's claim) happened two days ago, it was a surprising thing to read in the press, it's important.

“But let's not blow it out of all proportion. We're not crying about it. We're not going to sook about it.

“I'm cheeky enough to say it's flattering that Porsche have bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany, they want to try it. I guess that's some kind of stamp of approval.

“It's great to have the competition. We're absolutely proud of the GT-R. It's a fabulous sports car, really epic.

“The level of performance that it delivers is really so impressive for the price it's positioned at,” he said.

[Dodicicilindri]

E che dovevano dire? Intanto hanno smentito, ma non hanno sfidato la Porsche con una ulteriore dimostrazione al 'Ring. Imho avrebbero dovuto prendere un esemplare di normale produzione e ripetere il giro alla presenza di testimoni imparziali.

P.S.: non hanno fatto cenno alle modifiche all'assetto che pure si vedono nel video.

P.P.S.: hanno detto che il giro l'hanno fatto con le Dunlop: ma tu non dicevi che erano le gomme all weather? Invece forse sono le semislick.

Per me questa dichiarazione non aggiunge nulla e non fuga i sospetti che in molti hanno sin dall'inizio.

[Matteo B.]

leggi bene: non si esclude nulla. e cmq manco porsche "ha lanciato sfide"

le modifiche all'assetto sono solo una mia deduzione perchè ho visto nel video meccanici lavorarci sopra.

le gomme per gtr sono 3 (ho controllato su nissanusa) 1 B. e 2 D. di cui una è definita "4 stagioni"..le altre 2 sono estive....errore mio

la dichiarazione di Porsche (tempo fatto con gomme slick) è IMHO una sonora cazzata che hanno già smentito.