Delta Integrale vs Audi Quattro

[poliziottesco]

Spinto dalla discussione sulla nuova Audi Concept e ricordando un recente servizio di EVO UK in cui il nostro Deltone si e' dimostrato ancora fresco, posto questo bel servizio da PistonHeads.com :: Speed Matters

[h=1]DELTA INTEGRALE VS QUATTRO: FOES REUNITED[/h]As one rallying legacy ended another started; here's the point they intersected

Although the Lancia Delta had been around for more than eight years when the Integrale was launched, it still managed to make a huge impression. Outwardly, it could have been mistaken for being just another hot hatch, but in reality, it was much more exciting than that. Although the road-going Integrale could bask in the reflected glamour of the Martini-striped examples that had taken to serially winning rallies since the HF 4WD first appeared at the dawn of Group A in 1987, it immediately established itself as a giant-killing five-door supercar for the working man.

Autocar put the two rally icons together in 1988

The Audi Quattro's glory years in rallying were long gone when this comparison took place, but it still made a compelling road car even at its eight birthday. It was the first continuously successful four-wheel drive rally car - and had managed to etch indelible memories into the minds of fans who'd gone to see it in action on the stages. But it was a product of a different era - meaning that this head-to-head marked the crossover between two rallying eras, with two technically disparate road cars aiming to be the ultimate point-to-point weapon.And their appeal and performance would end up being remarkably similar, despite the fact they belonged to completely different generations.

The Delta's main evolution over the older HF 4WD was the addition of wheelarch blisters to accommodate larger wheels and brakes, as well as an additional 20hp for its turbocharged version of the classic Fiat-derived twin-cam. The Audi had seen many detail improvements since its launch at Geneva in 1980, but in broad terms, it was still very much the same, appealing, car - just with a plusher interior, more sophisticated differential set-up and digital dash. Both were evolutionary - and both proved to be utterly brilliant.

Quattro had been on the scene a while already

First encounter

Autocar grabbed the opportunity to test the Integrale pretty much the moment it was launched, sending Howard Lees to the Italian Alps in an Audi Quattro to intercept the new Italian car on home soil. And pretty much from the moment they met up, it was a case of scaling new heights - not just on the road, but later at the word processor. "Above the snow line, the two bright red cars seemed to glow incandescent against the pure white," Lees gushed. Quite.To be fair, given a snow capped Alp, an Audi Quattro and a Lancia Delta HF Integrale, we'd be gushing, too. In terms of performance, the cars were very evenly matched - perhaps a little bit too closely considering that back in February 1988, the Audi cost nigh-on double what the Lancia did. "Both cars accelerate from a standing start like there's no tomorrow. Even dropping the clutch at maximum rpm didn't provoke a hint of wheelspin in either car."

But thankfully for Audi, the Quattro just nosed ahead. "Even though two changes are needed to get to 60, this comes up in 6.4 seconds. An extra 15bhp and rather better aerodynamics gives the Quattro the edge on top speed - at 135mph, that five-cylinder engine is spinning well past its 5,500rpm power peak. The Integrale's wide tyres, and a maze of cooling ducts means the top speed is 128mph, only 150rpm past its 5,300rpm power peak."

Digital dash pure 80s chic and deeply cool

Handling saw Autocar dip into its book of superlatives. "Both these cars have as much performance in every area as you could possibly ever want on the public road. The Integrale immediately inspires more confidence. The steering is perfectly geared and the level of power assistance is exactly right. You can feel every movement of the steering wheel - it turns in with amazing precision, and through S-bends, the steering allows you to use every inch of the road."The Quattro was equally impressive, just in different ways. "It isn't as easily mastered, but ultimately it is even more rewarding to drive than the Delta. The Audi can be flung into corners at outrageous speeds, and powered out with no danger of losing either end." But when the going got tough, the Integrale aced it. "Above 1200 metres, its MXVs offered much more bite than the Audi's P700s." Talk about nip and tuck.

This see-sawing between the two was reflected in the verdict, too. You already know the conclusion, but we'll relay it anyway. "The Lancia is more comfortable and easier to drive fast, while the Quattro can go nearly twice as far on a tank, is better equipped and better built. But take money out of the equation, forget that you can buy nearly two Integrales for the price of a Quattro, and it's a very close run thing. For sheer driving pleasure, we'll take the Lancia."

Without doubt, the Italian was the performance car bargain of the year. Is it still the case today?

Integrale was set to dominate Group A rallying

Previous experience

The first impression you'll get from either of these cars is how small and delicate they are. Both have lovely wheelarch blisters and chunky bodykits, but times have moved on, and they look understated and appealing today.Start up the Integrale, and on a standard exhaust, it sounds remarkably subdued - an impression that continues once you're rolling. It's only when you're really motoring that the Integrale makes much noise, when it it takes on a hard-edged, purposeful growl that's extremely infectious. But not as much as its hyper-sensitive steering and telepathic handling.

But just because it's a focused driver's car doesn't mean it's not useful all year round. PHer DJC wasn't averse to treating his as a daily. "I used mine five days a week, shopping at Tesco and running up and down the country." ButPano amo loved how his felt: "Amazing car, pure and raw. Miss mine terribly. Oh how I used to love an early frosty weekend morning ripping up the local B-roads. But going out in the wet was even better!"

Integrale is all about the steering feel

Bluetone encapsulates the love/hate appeal of the Integrale. "My two years experience of running an Evo2 is that it's a bit like keeping a feisty mistress - exciting, rewarding, great thrills, and looks fabulous every time you open the curtains. But, boy-oh-boy, you better be prepared for complications..."Not that the Quattro's boring. Okay, so its late-1970s B2-generation Audi 80 ancestry is not too far from the surface, but on sound alone, all is forgiven. At idle, that five-pot sounds purposeful and resonant, and once you stretch its legs, the off-beat thrum it makes is gorgeous.

That's why Quattros have so many fans. The soundtrack, the dynamics, the coolness. Gruber nails its appeal. "The two Quattros I've driven were an absolutely joy. Nice sharp turn-in, a lightness that modern cars just don't have, a stunning soundtrack, remarkable traction and an addictive shove as the turbo spools up."

Wish you were here? Fire up the time machine!

Penguinracer adds "The superb long-travel suspension, beautifully judged spring, damper and anti-roll bar rates, just-so bushing composition and stellar aerodynamic stability make a car which punches way above its weight on the road. There are modern cars with 50 per cent-100 per cent more power, weighing 250kg+ more, which wouldn't see which way a Quattro went over B-roads wet or dry."And in any straw poll of PHers asked to choose between the two, it genuinely seems like a 50/50 split. And there aren't many comparisons you could say that about.

Back to the future

Quattro fans either pine for the earliest pre-1983 cars or the 20V, while Integrale lovers are mad for the Evos - so our pairing is a bit unloved. The good news is that 8V Integrales can be had for a fair bit less than £10,000, while MB Quattros start at a little more. Project Quattros are getting hard to find - so realistic opening price is around £15,000, with investment grade examples coming in at £20,000-plus.

£20K will get you in a top notch Quattro

Despite this, these Audis remain relatively plentiful, and in the pantheon of Quattros, the MB is probably the best model to go for offering a great compromise between reliability and affordability. Make sure any car you're looking at has enjoyed lavish attention, because although they are basically tough, there are known problems that manifest themselves through poor servicing. There's lots of talk about poor parts availability, but many more important service items being re-manufactured. But that doesn't excuse Audi for its poor factory back-up of these cars, especially in comparison with its German rivals.But the Lancia isn't exactly wonderful in this department, either. The good news is that if you're going to choose an Integrale like this one, the 8V model has the toughest drivetrain, and costs the least to keep in good running order. But age takes its toll, and tired bushes, a dull turbo and wilting oil pressure all take their toll from 80,000 miles. Like the Audi, the four-wheel drive system is tough, and any wear will soon become evident by making itself heard.

Later Integrales command significant premiums

Delta rust areas are all well known, and don't need too much explanation here - the sills, strut tops, hatchback, and windscreen surround are all hot spots. As for the interior - it's breakable, and parts are hard to find. In terms of what they cost, a good 8V can be had from £6,000, even though they are now the rarest of the lot. Good 16Vs start at £10,000, while the Evos come in at £15,000 - with the specials in the name-your-price category for good ones.Rematch

In 1988, Autocar went for the Integrale, rather surprisingly glossing over the huge price advantage it had in the process. It loved the Italian car's communicative steering, strong acceleration, and sheer controllability in the very worst weather conditions - very relevant in the UK - but commending the Audi's greater speed and maturity, as well as its much better build quality. But today, more than 25 years on would that verdict still stand the test of time?

Forget the tales of ultimate performance that Autocar told in 1988 - most hot hatches are well ahead of this pairing in terms of power and grip. And as for running either, you're going to need commitment, and won't mind slaking their appetite for fuel, but on the right road, and kept on the boil, both are still incredible fun, and will not only punch above their weight, but reward the driver massively in terms of feedback and plain old-fashioned feel. Nowhere is this more evident in the way the Lancia steers - no other power rack comes close to imparting so much information through the steering wheel's rim.

Does Autocar's 1988 verdict still stand?

And on that one point alone, it's all too easy to give the nod to the Lancia, backing up Autocar's 1988 verdict, but that would be all too easy. But the Audi's packed full of charisma, too, not least because of its - dare we say it - iconic soundtrack and oh-so perfect styling. Now the two protagonists' prices are closer than they were in 1988, never have they been more closely matched than they are right now. Choosing comes down to the indefinables - and in that case, we'll eschew the Audi's predicted better reliability, and take the Lancia on the strength of its sublime steering and more accessible handling.But never has a decision been harder to make between two cars.

---

AUDI QUATTRO

Engine: 2,226cc 5-cyl turbo

Transmission: 5-speed manual, 4-wheel drive

Power (hp): 200@5,500rpm

Torque (lb ft): 210@3,500rpm

0-60mph: 6.3 sec

Top speed: 135mph

Weight: 1,331kg

MPG: 19.7mpg (Autocar test mpg overall)

CO2: N/A

Price then: £29,445

Price now: £10,000-£25,000

From the classifieds:1989 Audi Quattro MB £20,995

Why you might: One owner from new, full-service history, sub 100K miles

LANCIA DELTA HF INTEGRALE

Engine: 1,995cc 4-cyl turbo

Transmission: 5-speed manual, 4-wheel drive

Power (hp): 185@5,300rpm

Torque (lb ft): 224@3,500rpm

0-62mph: 6.4 sec

Top speed: 128mph

Weight: 1,267kg

MPG: 17.6mpg (Autocar test mpg overall)

CO2: N/A g/km

Price then: £15,455

Price now: £5,000-35,000

From the classifieds:1992 Lancia Delta HF Integrale Evolution

Why you might: Enthusiast owned with great history, a sensibly-priced Evo for 16V money.

Sono sempre stao innamorato di entrambe, anche se bambino badando all' estetica non potevo che rimanere estasiato dalla icona di casa nostra (pero' il tacho digitale di quattro mi ingrifava tanto

mai guidate, peccato che il club a cui sono iscritto fino a pochissimo tempo fa aveva in scuderia proprio il deltone

Insieme ad M3 grandi amori d' epoca

[TonyH]

Affascinanti, ma i possessori dicono a denti stretti che siano a loro modo delle "spine nel culo". Uno più quando la guidi, l'altra quando ti fermi dal meccanico

[poliziottesco]

Affascinanti, ma i possessori dicono a denti stretti che siano a loro modo delle "spine nel culo". Uno più quando la guidi, l'altra quando ti fermi dal meccanico

Anche quello fa parte del fascino . Meno male che non ho un garage, altrimenti non so quanti soldi avrei speso appresso alla integrale

[stev66]

chi fosse un'auto vincente e chi no, la storia l'ha detto chiaramente

Poi con il passo da seg. E e motore a sbalzo, non è che la tedeschina potesse fare di più

[TurboGimmo]

Anche quello fa parte del fascino . Meno male che non ho un garage, altrimenti non so quanti soldi avrei speso appresso alla integrale

Piu' che quello, a me spaventano i tempi di fermo-macchina, e il tempo che bisogna dedicarci.

Perche' se per assurdo si fosse tutti miliardari, se si scassa un pezzo (es: il fendinebbia della Delta, 160euro usato) bisogna comunque sbattersi per trovare il pezzo, e poi tenere ferma l'auto finche' non si e' sistemato. E trovare chi ci sa mettere le mani.

E' una cosa bellissima la passione per certe auto, ma ci sono dei corollari che ti raccomando..

[TonyH]

Anche quello fa parte del fascino .

fino a che paga qualcun'altro

avere una roba di cristallo, dopo un po' diventa stufoso...

pensa al GTV6 che è meglio

[lupin3rd]

Perché di ricambi per le italiane non si trova nulla mentre per le tedesche a caro prezzo trovi tutto per non parlare della grande scelta per le auto made in UK. La cappelliera con lo scanso per il ruotino dell'Integrale non sfigurerebbe vicino ad un Rembrandt non perché sia bella ma perché più o meno la rarità è quella. In più molte sono violentate si si violentare dal tamarro di turno che o tocca il motore o si fa la EVO da gara perché lui è cisti o distrugge una 8V perché il Deltone è il Deltone e quindi c'è solo la EVO II ecc. Poi c'è il grosso problema della scocca che tende a creparsi.

[poliziottesco]

vero, i ricambi per le italiane sono spesso un incubo

[TonyH]

Perché di ricambi per le italiane non si trova nulla mentre per le tedesche a caro prezzo trovi tutto per non parlare della grande scelta per le auto made in UK.

Perchè non si è tenuta adeguata tracciabilità (o se c'era, è andata perduta), e la "standardizzazione" era una bestemmia (politica, che la fornitura te la doveva fare l'amico)

Alcuni esempi

- blocchetto avviamento GTV. Specifico. Differisce per 0.5cm da quello di Alfetta berlina

- Servofreno: ce ne sono di almeno 4 tipi diversi per lo stesso modelli

- cambi: stesso motore, stesso modello, a seconda dell'anno cambiano supporti interni. Ovviamente non intercambiabili.

- Termostato spider. Fino al 1986 di un tipo, uguale alle altre, dal 1986 specifico

e queste sono solo quelle in cui mi sono imbattuto di prima persona

[poliziottesco]

...

pensa al GTV6 che è meglio

eh si, sempre un amore anche quello.

OT/ nel settore storiche le vecchie alfa e le vecchie porsche hanno un non so che tutto loro, non sono folgoranti, costose ed ambite quanto auto di altri marchi pero' hanno sangue, odore e fascino da vendere/OT

Modificato 15 Maggio 2014 da poliziottesco