FCA Dieselgate in USA

[cliffemall]

1 ora fa, Davialfa dice:

 

Poi sorrido sempre (anche quando tocco a Vag) quando gli americani portano avanti queste battaglie e al contempo sono i più grandi inquinatori del mondo e se uno si fa un giro nelle strade degli states vede mezzi che di risparmio energetico e ambientale non hanno nemmeno l'accendisigarette.

 

 

Sui grandi mezzi da movimento terra ed agricoli (Caterpillar e John Deere) i Tier applicati ai motori sono stringentissimi.

 

Te lo posso dire perchè un pari potenza di 20 anni fa aveva prestazioni praticamente doppie rispetto a quelli odierni (che implementano tutti gli accorgimenti del mondo automotive)

[Matteo B.]

voci di "dieselgate" anche su Renault. (homepage Corriere)

 

motore diesel = vero sconfitto di questo periodo di "scandali"

 

 

Modificato 13 Gennaio 2017 da Matteo B.

[LucioFire]

42 minuti fa, markus_81 dice:

 

 

Fca ai massimi con ulteriori prospettive di aumento e qualcuno di grosso che aveva bisogno di entrare a prezzi più bassi....

 

 

dici?

24 minuti fa, pennellotref dice:

Beh....Oddio ! In conferenza stampa non è che ci siano andati tanto per il sottile con le dichiarazioni ! Questo personalmente è l'unico aspetto di questa storia che mi lascia un po' perplesso e che ha fatto più incazzare il Maglionato, imho giustamente...

 

manco i giornal ise è per questo...

[pennellotref]

7 minuti fa, LucioFire dice:

.....

 

manco i giornal ise è per questo...

Non è la stessa cosa...

[Andrew_87]

mah...personalmente visto il tipo di accusa mi sono sembrati molto strani i toni con cui è stata fatta l'accusa...oltretutto il titolo in borsa si sta riprendendo...magari sono io esagerato ma mi pare una bella gonfiatura per nascondere qualche bel giochino in borsa fatto da qualcuno...

[mariola]

Intanto su Spinoza (sdrammatizziamo un po')

 

Anche la FCA truccava le emissioni. Nei test taroccati le Panda partivano.

Dieselgate, anche Fiat-Chrysler truccava le emissioni. Le polveri sottili sono un problema di famiglia.

Anche la FCA truccava i dati sulle emissioni delle auto. Per una volta sono riusciti a imitare i tedeschi.
Fiat Chrysler truccava le emissioni del Grand Cherokee. Ma no, guardate, erano segnali di fumo.
FCA avrebbe truccalo la Grand Cherokee. Sotto la scocca c'era una Multipla.

 

[pennellotref]

6 minuti fa, mariola dice:

Intanto su Spinoza (sdrammatizziamo un po')

 

Anche la FCA truccava le emissioni. Nei test taroccati le Panda partivano.

Dieselgate, anche Fiat-Chrysler truccava le emissioni. Le polveri sottili sono un problema di famiglia.

Anche la FCA truccava i dati sulle emissioni delle auto. Per una volta sono riusciti a imitare i tedeschi.
Fiat Chrysler truccava le emissioni del Grand Cherokee. Ma no, guardate, erano segnali di fumo.
FCA avrebbe truccalo la Grand Cherokee. Sotto la scocca c'era una Multipla.

 

Modificato 13 Gennaio 2017 da pennellotref

[Maxwell61]

In USA non si è riuscito a fare un 2.0 diesel che rispettasse i limiti senza costare un botto e andare fuori mercato, c'era giusto VAG col cheat a dimostrarlo. E si capisce che anche sui 3,0 litri diesel ci sono problemi a starci dentro coi costi. La soluzione in USA è stata semplice, andare a benzina perchè costa poco.

 

Immaginiamo se in EU ci fossero i limiti USA sul diesel. I motori a benzina consumano troppo e la benzina costa troppo. Fare bei diesel in EU che rispettassero le uniche norme sensate per essi, quelle USA, farebbe salire i costi rendendo competitivi ibridi ed elettrici. 

 

Ergo in EU siamo in una situazione drogata anche dal punto di vista commerciale. E le presunte perdite mirabolanti sulle auto elettriche, gonfiatissime da Marchionne per quel gioiello che è stata la Fiat 500 EV, non sarebbero così elevate se si fossero rispettate le regole.

[pennellotref]

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2017/01/12/fiat-chrysler-cheating-emissions/96486440/

 

Cita

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles CEO Sergio Marchionne quickly and forcefully disputed charges that FCA violated the Clean Air Act with undisclosed  emissions software testing, saying he fears the company will be unfairly compared to Volkswagen and its massive emissions scandal.

In a quickly arranged news conference, Marchionne called the allegations from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency "unadulterated hogwash" and "absolute nonsense," and he pushed aside comparisons to Volkswagen.

FCA's violations as outlined by the EPA involve about 104,000 vehicles, compared with Volkswagen's more than  half a million vehicles.

"My biggest fear is people will start drawing parallels," he said.

The automaker's stock dropped 10.5%, or $1.14 per share, to close at $9.95 per share as investors reacted to the EPA's announcement. The EPA has the authority to fine automakers up to $44,539 per vehicle for the worst violations of the Clean Air Act.

FCA is accused of installing undisclosed software on its Jeep Grand Cherokee SUVs and Ram 1500 EcoDiesel pickups from the 2014-16 model years, causing increased emissions of nitrogen oxides (NOx) from the vehicles.

"This is a clear and serious violation of the Clean Air Act ...There is no doubt they are contributing to illegal pollution," Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for EPA’s office of compliance, said Thursday. "Some of the devices appear to cause the vehicle to perform differently when being tested and when in use."

Volkswagen recently admitted to intentionally equipping vehicles with "defeat" software designed to trick government emissions testing equipment for diesel engines. The German company has agreed to pay a $2.8-billion criminal fine and $1.5 billion in civil penalties for rigging the software and for lying to U.S. investigators about the nature of the conspiracy. A federal judge in Detroit must still approve the settlement.

The German automaker also recently agreed to separate civil settlements worth about $17 billion for U.S. consumers and dealers who own diesel vehicles affected by the scandal, authorizing buybacks and free fixes.

Several analysts said the FCA's sin might be solely about disclosure, and not an intentionally deceptive act like VW.

"Software which adjusts the emissions of an engine is standard practice across the industry," Evercore ISI analyst Arndt Ellinghorst said in a note to investors. "It is the failure to disclose which seems to be the primary cause of concern at the EPA."

Kelley Blue Book analyst Rebecca Lindland said there was no indication that FCA had intentionally cheated.

"They're not meeting the standards, but right now it doesn't appear to be the same type of deliberate act that Volkswagen admitted to," she said.

Banking on Trump

The EPA announced its allegations Thursday morning, and FCA's response was forceful and immediate. The Auburn Hills company issued a news release shortly after 11 a.m. during the EPA's news conference saying it was "disappointed" with the agency's decision.

By noon, Marchionne was holding his own news conference and used it to question EPA's political intentions and what he views as an increasingly aggressive regulatory approach.

"I don’t want to speculate as to whether this thing has got any sort of political impute, but we find it very, very strange that it would happen the week before this administration changes over," Marchionne said. "There is not a single doubt in our mind that both (the California Air Resources Board) and EPA have changed the way they are looking at these processes."

Marchionne is hoping that the incoming Trump administration won't continue the Obama administration's investigation or won't crack down as aggressively.

FCA has been talking to the EPA about the diesel emission issue for more than a year, and Marchionne said the disagreement over the calibration of the engines is vastly different than the intentional installation of defeat devices the agency found on Volkswagen vehicles in 2015.

"We are having a difference of opinion of whether the calibration met the regulations or did not meet the regulations," Marchionne said. "We find it strange and it's unfortunate that EPA decided to do this this morning in such a public manner."

A day after VW settlement

EPA's announcement about FCA came one day after Volkswagen pleaded guilty to weaving a vast conspiracy to defraud the U.S. government and obstruct a federal investigation into its violation of emissions standards.

Unlike VW, the EPA has not yet ordered FCA to halt sales of diesel vehicles accused of violations. And Marchionne said he would not stop sales proactively.

Still, EPA officials and the California Air Resources Board did, at times, tie the two investigations together.

“Once again, a major automaker made the business decision to skirt the rules and got caught," Mary Nichols, chairwoman of the California Air Resources Board, said in a statement. “CARB and U.S. EPA made a commitment to enhanced testing as the Volkswagen case developed, and this is a result of that collaboration.”

It's not unusual for Marchionne to take a combative stance against a federal regulatory agency. He pushed back against the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in 2013 when the agency initially recommended a recall of 2.7 million Jeep SUVs for potentially dangerous rear-mounted fuel tanks.

Eventually, the agency agreed to allow FCA to reduce the recall to include 1.56 million Jeep Grand Cherokees for model years 1993 to 2004 and the Jeep Liberty for model years 2002-07. The following year, NHTSA was again critical of the automaker for the slow repair rate of those Jeeps. FCA also continues to say the fuel tanks are not a "safety defect" — only that it agreed to conduct a recall.

The EPA has been aggressively pushing the automotive industry on greenhouse gas emission regulations and discovered similar diesel emission violations with Volkswagen engines in September 2015.

Diesel technology reputation hurt

Marchionne said the Volkswagen investigation and Thursday's public disclosure by the EPA of FCA's violations will continue to damage the image of diesel vehicles as a desirable, fuel-efficient technology.

FCA boasted about the fuel economy of the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel when it unveiled the pickup in 2014, saying it was  certified at 28 m.p.g. on the highway, making it the most fuel-efficient half-ton pickup on the market.

"I don’t have a doubt that this is going to have a negative implication on diesel in the U.S. and most of that maligned view is unwarranted," he said.

Marchionne also said he believes the U.S. Justice Department is assisting the EPA with its investigation.

"I have not met with them, but based on what I have been told by counsel, the answer is yes," Marchionne said when asked about the Justice Department's involvement.

In addition, New York Attorney Eric Schneiderman said Thursday afternoon that his office would lead its own investigation on behalf of the state.

"My office was proud to take a leading role in the multi-state investigation of Volkswagen that uncovered flagrant abuses of New York’s environmental laws and, in the case of VW, a culture of corruption that enabled blatantly illegal conduct to persist over many years," Schneiderman said in a statement. "As such, my office will investigate the claims against Fiat Chrysler.

[Kippur]

8 ore fa, owluca dice:

Fca, accusa meno pesante di Vw: vizio di trasparenza sul software di controllo

 

 

http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/finanza-e-mercati/2017-01-13/accusa-meno-pesante-vw-vizio-trasparenza-software-controllo--091143.shtml?uuid=ADnhHrWC

 

 

l'accusa si è oggettivamente ridimensionata di 2 ordini di grandezza : da

cheat  device = truffa

a  problema  emisisoni = violazione dei limiti

a un problema nelle informazioni sul SW .

 

e anche in questo caso  si tratta di interpretazioni delle norme

quelle che  in questo caso regolano quali informazioni  trasmettere:

cosa che oltre alla interpretazione in sè si porta dietro questioni di segreto industriale che negli USA  vengono prese molto sul serio.

 

 

 

 

Mha, la cosa potrebbe essere più grave o ridursi ad una "incomprensione" fra ente certificatore e costruttore..

 

Imho la prima ipotesi è più plausibile.