Scelte strategiche FCA (Piano industriale 2018 da pag 97)

[pennellotref]

E a quanto pare non vende nemmeno, a me sembra solo una moda giornalistica, come avvenne nel 2006-2010 quando vi era l’alleanza tra GM Chrysler e BMW per gli ibridi e vennero lanciate varie Dodge e Chrysler Hybrid, Ford e Mercury, ecc ecc tutte sparite e invendute! 

Circa il 25% delle Pacifica vendute sono PHEV. Fonte il culturista canadese.

☏ C6603 ☏

[KimKardashian]

1 ora fa, pennellotref scrive:

Circa il 25% delle Pacifica vendute sono PHEV. Fonte il culturista canadese.

☏ C6603 ☏
 

4200blu posto i dati ed erano molto bassi, ora non ricordo ma mi sembra erano sulle 7 mila in totale

[pennellotref]

4 minuti fa, KimKardashian scrive:

4200blu posto i dati ed erano molto bassi, ora non ricordo ma mi sembra erano sulle 7 mila in totale

E che ti devo dire! Magari forse quando lo ha dichiarato Bigland era sbronzo ! LOL

[Bare]

4 hours ago, 4200blu said:

 

Booh, with 5 PHEV and one BEV before end of 2020 in my opinion your mucch too optimistic. As I sample the development of such cars at other OEMs, I think you need much more time, espescially FCA is devoloping such cars from scratch without any experience, but per haps i'm too pessimistic and you will have right, we'll see.

For MHEV, I'm non opponent in tecnical sense, i see definitely the possibilities for reducing consumption (and therefore emissions) in real life of usinf the car.  But unfortunaltly the rules for calculating the cicle-consumtion in Europe are so stupid. The eletrical part of the distance made by a PHEV of BEV is counted with zero and only with this stupid way of calculation your come on the paper to emissions from 40 or 50g for a big Suv or luxury sedan. That the electrical current comes out of the plug with zero -ok-, but coming into the plug, producing it, means in reality, (perhaps except in Norway) that you have emissions, but these emissions are not count for the emission of a car and this is what I feel extremly stupid to calculate like this.

But the rules in europe are as they are and you have to play the game as producer of cars. And for this game a MHev unfortunatly doesn't help very much, you need Phev's or Bevs.

 

PHEV should be Renegade and Compass together with all 3 Alfa Romeo models. BEV is of-course Fiat 500.

Question is number of sales. 5, 10 or 20% of a total line-up. FCA believes that at the end of 2022 they will have 20% PHEV+BEV in a total sales.

P1P4 PHEV system for FWD based cars is ready. It's now into industrialisation phase. They done tests in last couple of years. We are speaking about similar system as on BMW 225xe but this system in addition to a P4 electric motor has a BSG system as on mild hybrids.

For P1P2 PHEV responsible is North American R&D center so I don't know much about it except that it will debut on Wrangler in early 2020. It should be developed with ZF but it will also offer a 4WD/AWD.

 

MHEV can help a lot. It can help especially when old engine is a 1.2 FIRE. I think that a GSE N3 with a 12 V BSG mild hybrid system will help a lot with a CO2 reduction. It will bring FCA few steps closer to reach an average CO2 fleet emissions.

And this project is well underway. Basically this hit industrialisation phase.

 

I don't know much about future P2 48V MHEV. It's still a long way from a production phase.

But in any case FCA has a calculation that at the end of 2022 40% of its fleet will be a MHEV. That's a bold statement and certainly necessary to reach CO2 target. 

 

Actually I don't know any European manufacturer except BMW which doesn't put a faith int MHEV. Strange...

 

Speaking about FCA's expertise for hybrids. It's not worse than BMW's. Actually it's the opposite.

4 hours ago, stev66 said:

Scusate ma perché tutti dimentichiamo che una phev / mhev fca l'ha già regolarmente in vendita da mo, cioè la pacifica? A base ta, tra l'altro. 

 

I call it a double standards. Nothing strange for this forum. #german_supremacy

 

 

4 hours ago, xtom said:

 

L'ibrido PHEV potenzialmente può far risparmiare, ma al momento le case puntano sui modelli troppo potenti, vedasi i 240 Cv della Renegade e gli oltre 200 Cv della concorrenza, per cui poi è normale che rimangano nei parcheggi dei concessionari.

 

 

PHEV is not a cheap technology. Car makers must tempt people to buy it at a higher price. They are doing it with a higher performance. IMO it's a good policy. Customers are usually willing to pay more for a higher performance.

[KimKardashian]

2 ore fa, pennellotref scrive:

E che ti devo dire! Magari forse quando lo ha dichiarato Bigland era sbronzo ! LOL

 

[pennellotref]

7 minuti fa, KimKardashian scrive:

 

Mesà che era sbronzo pure il giornalista che lo ha scritto...ehehehehhehhh

[4200blu]

4 ore fa, pennellotref scrive:

Circa il 25% delle Pacifica vendute sono PHEV. Fonte il culturista canadese.

 

Maahh, vedremmo cosa vendono Nov/Dic, ma fino ottobre con la matematica io ho imparato una volta i 7547 ibride su 102469 (USA) totale sono 7,36%, ma forse in Canada hanno inventato un'altra matematica nell fratempo. ( un po piu vicino alla 25% secondo il mio modo di calcolare sono con le immatricolazione in Canada, dove sono 1130 su 5918 ibride, una quota di 19,1%)

 

2 ore fa, Bare scrive:

But in any case FCA has a calculation that at the end of 2022 40% of its fleet will be a MHEV. That's a bold statement and certainly necessary to reach CO2 target. 

 

..as they have calculated once a time, that at the end of 2018 they will sell 400.000 Alfas worldwide ??

[4200blu]

3 ore fa, Bare scrive:

MHEV can help a lot.

 

..boh, for this i'm not sure.

AutoMotor+Sport has made a confrontation between MB C 200, one with the old 2.0L / 184CV engine, the other with the new 1.5 Mhev 1,5L / 184CV.

The old one has had a test consumption of 8,6L/100Km, the new Mhev an average from 8,3L/100Km. So a reduction of 3,5% - it's not nothing, but an important contribution to reach the 95g for 2021 and the 57g for 2030 must deliver much more reduction.

 

Modificato 19 Gennaio 2019 da 4200blu

[Bare]

17 minutes ago, 4200blu said:

 

..boh, for this i'm not sure.

AutoMotor+Sport has made a confrontation between MB C 200, one with the old 2.0L / 184CV engine, the other with the new 1.5 Mhev 1,5L / 184CV.

The old one has had a test consumption of 8,6L/100Km, the new Mhev an average from 8,3L/100Km. So a reduction of 3,5% - it's not nothing, but an important contribution to reach the 95g for 2021 and the 57g for 2030 must deliver much more reduction.

 

Look at Ram 1500...

 

For MHEV in Europe it seems that FCA will put a lot of faith into P2 MHEV.

I don't know for any production P2 MHEV except Mercedes 3 liter Inline 6.

 

But at the end official CO2 is all that matters. And I'm sure that some car makers will try to cheat the system or they will kill engine performance like VAG. VAG with Euro 6d TEMP engines has an awful recovery times.

 

 

[4200blu]

10 minuti fa, Bare scrive:

VAG with Euro 6d TEMP engines has an awful recovery times.

that's true ?