Scelte strategiche Gruppo VAG

[Maxwell61]

24 minuti fa, 4200blu scrive:

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-golf-return-electric-power-ninth-generation

 

 

Ha capito che la Id3 è un cesso di estetica e interni. 

[aboutdas]

40 minuti fa, Maxwell61 scrive:

Ha capito che la Id3 è un cesso di estetica e interni. 

Butteranno alle ortiche le ID.NUMERATE alla prima occasione utile, ossia quando l'intera gamma sarà BEV. E a quel punto abbandoneranno la sigla ID. 😂

[slego]

45 minuti fa, Maxwell61 scrive:

Ha capito che la Id3 è un cesso di estetica e interni. 

 

credo che la gamma ID si stata pensata principalmente per la fase di transizione all'elettrico, per non rischiare di bruciare i nomi storici (che valgono soldi) in prodotti che per forza si sapeva sarebbero stati imperfetti (eufemismo). un po' come a dire "questa è roba sperimentale, per ora". stesso motivo per cui il design di questa gamma è altro rispetto ai prodotti più tradizionali.

con tecnologie e soluzioni più consolidate mi pare quasi ovvio che si useranno ancora Golf, Passat ecc. sarebbe appunto demenziale buttar via nomi sotirci noti e apprezzati per sostituirli con stupide e insipide sigle. e anche il design probabilmente riprenderà il filo col passato.

Modificato 18 Novembre 2022 da slego

[Maxwell61]

On 18/11/2022 at 15:24, slego scrive:

 

credo che la gamma ID si stata pensata principalmente per la fase di transizione all'elettrico, per non rischiare di bruciare i nomi storici (che valgono soldi) in prodotti che per forza si sapeva sarebbero stati imperfetti (eufemismo). un po' come a dire "questa è roba sperimentale, per ora". stesso motivo per cui il design di questa gamma è altro rispetto ai prodotti più tradizionali.

con tecnologie e soluzioni più consolidate mi pare quasi ovvio che si useranno ancora Golf, Passat ecc. sarebbe appunto demenziale buttar via nomi sotirci noti e apprezzati per sostituirli con stupide e insipide sigle. e anche il design probabilmente riprenderà il filo col passato.

Mmm, considerando le piattaforme delle ID esclusivamente elettriche, mi sembra difficile considerarle di transizione. Mi sembra piuttosto che Diess volesse fare il contrario, buttare a mare l'heritage e in seconda battuta gli impianti, per seguire l'esempio di tabula rasa dell'amichetto Musk. 

 

[4200blu]

26 minuti fa, Maxwell61 scrive:

Mi sembra piuttosto che Diess volesse fare il contrario, buttare a mare l'heritage e in seconda battuta gli impianti, per seguire l'esempio di tabula rasa dell'amichetto Musk. 

 

esatto, credo anch'io, solo che adesso Blume per certe parte sembra che torna indietro la ruota. Secondo me lui ha riconosciuto, che la strategia di Diess ha sforzato eccessivamente la clientela tradizionale della auto del popolo che tradizionalmente e molto conservativo e poco progressivo. Per questo, una Golf 9 come bev e con nome Id.Golf potrebbe costruire un ponte per la clientela tipica verso il futuro.

 

 

 

[4200blu]

22 minuti fa, mikisnow scrive:

Domanda:

Abbandoneranno Polo perché costerebbe troppo e nessuno l'acuisterebbe più per sostituirla con una ID2 che costerà troppo?!! 🔄

Direi si vede alla VW, che questo tipo di macchina non vende piu: 2010 in Europa hanno vendute 360.000 Polo, quest'anno molto probabile finiscono a 120-125.000 unite, semplicimente non ha piu senso e non e redditizio.

 

 

 

Modificato 20 Novembre 2022 da 4200blu

[4200blu]

Non credo che i´l loro problema vera e un Polo o id2 in Europa, il loro problema e Cina dove perdono fortemente quota mercato nel segmento bev, dove i loro prodotti sono completamente fuori del gusto dei clienti, e questo segmento e il futuro. Cosi il loro futuro in Cina e per questo anche in totale (vedendo che Cina sta almeno per 50% del profitto) sembra abbastanza nero.

 

 

 

[superkappa125]

Quote

Volkswagen extends MEB lifespan in radical strategy overhaul

Volkswagen extends MEB lifespan in radical strategy overhaul

Significant battery upgrades for existing EV architecture as new SSP platform pushed back to 2028

99 volkswagen id aero front quarter

Production version of Volkswagen ID Aero is due in 2023 atop MEB platform

 

Volkswagen Group CEO Oliver Blume has given the go-ahead for a substantial investment in the MEB (Modularer E-Antriebs Baukasten) electric car platform, setting up a fundamental revision of the German car maker’s electric car strategy up to and beyond 2030.

 

The reported €1.5 billion (£1.3bn) investment, which encompasses the development of more advanced battery cell, power electronics and inverter technology among other changes, comes as the Volkswagen Group begins to roll back on plans originally initiated by former CEO Herbert Diess, following an internal review of future electric car expenditure and processes, much of which has now been placed on hold for further consideration by its board members.

 

The internal review identified the four-year-old MEB platform, which supports both single-motor rear- and dual-motor four-wheel drive, as a central pillar in instilling greater competitiveness, economies of scale, production efficiency and profitability into the company’s planned electric models.

 

The investment in the structure, first reported by German newspaper FAZ, is aimed at extending its production life well beyond that of earlier strategy planning, which called for the MEB platform to be phased out during the latter half of this decade in favour of the SSP (Scaleable Systems Platform) structure.

 

Blume is claimed to have already initiated steps to integrate the battery cell technology originally envisaged for the SSP structure into an updated MEB platform, known internally as MEB-EVO. It centres around a so-called ‘unified cell’ to be used across the Volkswagen Group as part of cost amortisation efforts for the company, which sold 366,000 electric cars during the first nine months of 2022.

 

Other changes planned for the MEB platform include an increase in charging capacity. Nothing is official yet, although an internal document cited by FAZ is claimed to reveal the upgraded MEB structure will support charging at speeds of between 175kW and 200kW. This represents a significant increase on the peak 135kW of existing MEB-based models.

 

Despite the investment, though, the updated MEB platform is expected to retain a 400V electric architecture in the interests of cost competitiveness.

 

The decision to invest in the MEB platform will mean the introduction of the SSP structure – which has been conceived around a more advanced 800V electric architecture, allowing a charging capacity of up to 350kW – is delayed until 2028 at the very earliest.

 

 

Confirmation of this was first aired by Volkswagen brand CEO Thomas Schäfer at the recent 2022 Los Angeles motor show, where he told Autocar: “We’re not 100% sure what comes when. But what we know is that everything slides back a bit by, say, two years.” 

 

Plans for the construction of a new manufacturing site in Warmenau, close to Volkswagen’s Wolfsburg headquarters in Germany, specifically for SSP platform models have also been abandoned, in a move that is claimed to provide savings of up to €2bn (£1.7bn).

 

First used by the Volkswagen ID 3 hatchback at its European market launch in September 2019, the MEB platform currently underpins six electric Volkswagen models, including the Volkswagen ID 4, Volkswagen ID 5 and Chinese-market ID 6 SUVs as well as the recently introduced ID Buzz and ID Buzz Cargo. 

 

 

 

It is also used for the Audi Q4 E-tron SUV, Q4 E-tron Sportback and Chinese-market Q5 E-tron, as well as the Skoda Enyaq and Enyaq Coupé, and the Cupra Born.

 

 

In addition, the MEB platform is also set to be used by Volkswagen’s first dedicated electric-powered saloon - a production version of the Volkswagen ID Aero concept, to be revealed in prototype guise at next month’s 2023 CES show prior to going on sale in Europe during the second half of next year under the likely name ID 7.

 

Further models to be based on the MEB platform include two new crossover-style offerings and a new hatchback from Ford – all set to be produced in Cologne, Germany.

 

Additionally, Skoda has announced plans for three new MEB-based models by 2026, while Cupra says it will add a new MEB model in the form of a production version of its Tavascan SUV concept to its line-up in 2024.

 

A modified version of the existing MEB platform with a shortened wheelbase and smaller battery module known to insiders as the MEB-Small is also confirmed to form the basis of the upcoming ID 2 and ID 2 X, an entry-level hatchback and crossover pairing that are being developed in a three-way engineering programme between Volkswagen, Cupra and Skoda and, on current planning, set to make production in 2025.

 

Under the previous electric car platform strategy orchestrated by Diess, the MEB structure was envisaged to be phased out in 2025. 

 

 

However, Blume’s decision to give the green light to additional investment in the existing structure will enable it to continue to play a pivotal role in the development of future electric models, including Volkswagen's Project Trinity autonomous-capable saloon.

 

 

 

Originally conceived on the SSP structure, the new Tesla Model 3 rival – which, sources suggest, is being lined up to be named the ID 5 when it goes on sale in 2026 – will now be based on MEB-EVO. 

 

The new saloon, which is planned to spawn an Audi sibling model, is seen as a lynchpin in the Volkswagen Group’s ambitious electric car plans. 

 

MEB platform models are currently produced in six Volkswagen Group manufacturing plants, including the company’s Zwickau, Dresden and Hanover sites in Germany and Skoda’s Mlada Boleslav plant in the Czech Republic as well as at its Chinese joint venture operations with FAW in Changchun and SAIC in Shanghai.

 

Two additional German MEB manufacturing sites will be added in 2023. Volkswagen’s traditional Wolfsburg plant is already being geared up to produce the facelifted ID 3 hatchback and its Emden factory is currently in a pilot production phase for the upcoming ID 7 saloon.

 

At this stage, Volkswagen is looking to build the production version of Project Trinity, the ID 5, alongside the facelifted ID 3 at its recently upgraded Wolfsburg plant.

 

To accommodate the ID 7 at its heavily restructured Emden site, Volkswagen has already announced plans to shift production of the upcoming ninth-generation Volkswagen Passat to Skoda’s Kvasiny plant, where it will be produced alongside the fourth-generation Skoda Superb.

 

Plans have also been announced to produce MEB-based models at a third Chinese joint venture run between Volkswagen and JAC in Anhui, China.

 

A recent visit by Blume to Volkswagen’s Chattanooga plant in Tennessee has also led to speculation that MEB-based models could also be produced in the US. 

 

Autocar.co.uk

 

Secondo Autocar la piattaforma a 800V SSP sarebbe posticipata di 2/3 anni, MEB verrebbe aggiornata con nuove batterie e capacità di ricarica aumentate fino a 200 kW per tappare il buco, rimanendo comunque a 400V.

Anche Project Trinity, la berlina anti Model 3 che doveva portare al debutto la SSP sarebbe stata riprogrammata su MEB EVO.

 

Secondo me una ammissione del fatto che MEB non ha assolutamente rispettato le aspettative, ma non vedo come possa rimanere competitiva fino alla seconda metà del decennio una architettura a 400V con una potenza di ricarica di picco così bassa.

Modificato 3 Dicembre 2022 da superkappa125

[GL91]

1 ora fa, superkappa125 scrive:

Secondo me una ammissione del fatto che MEB non ha assolutamente rispettato le aspettative

Credo sia anche una scelta obbligata dovuta ai problemi nello sviluppo della nuova piattaforma, soprattutto della parte software.

[4200blu]

Audi to lose key AV project in VW Group's new software strategy
VW Group CEO Oliver Blume is expected to scrap Audi's Artemis autonomous driving project under a new software roadmap that he will present at a supervisory board meeting this month.

Volkswagen Group's Audi brand will lose a key autonomous driving project under a new software strategy that aims to make the group's proprietary software competitive and market-ready by the end of the decade.

Audi's Artemis project, which aimed to develop a Level 4 self-driving electric car by 2024, has shown little progress amid delays at VW Group's Cariad unit in creating advanced new software.

VW Group CEO Oliver Blume is expected to scrap the Artemis project under a new software roadmap that he will present at a supervisory board meeting on Dec.15.

VW Group's commercial vehicles unit will be the group leader in introducing self-driving vehicles. The unit aims to introduce its first fully autonomous shuttle in Hamburg in 2025. Its is also testing a fleet of ID Buzz self-driving electric minivans in Israel as part of its partnership with Mobileye, Automobilwoche sources said.

Under the new roadmap, the group's 1.1 and 1.2 software platforms will continue to be developed, with the 1.2 platform renamed "Software Premium" and made ready for Audi and Porsche to use by the end of the decade, German business daily Handelsblatt reported. The group's mass-market brands will use the 1.1 platform.

A new, Porsche-developed vehicle architecture called SSP61 will be launched in 2026 for VW Group premium brands. It will underpin the new, all-electric Audi A8 along with two new Audi flagships developed under Artemis codenamed Landjet and Landyacht.

Porsche will use the SSP61 platfrom for a range-topping, full-electric SUV positioned above the Cayenne and Macan. SSP61 will be a sportier version of the SSP (Scalable Systems Platform) announced by VW Group last year.

These vehicles will use the 1.2 software platform, without hands-off autonomous driving functions, company sources said. A more advanced 2.0 software system may be added later but not before 2028. VW brand's Trinity flagship electric car will also get 2.0 software. It is likley to be launched as a crossover instead of a sedan, sources said.

VW Group's supervisory board called in May for management to present a roadmap for Cariad after multiple years of delays to planned new software iterations and overspending.

Cariad is a core part of VW Group's plans to catch up with Tesla in the coming years, but the subsidiary has been wrestling with difficulties, causing important projects to fall behind schedule and Porsche and Audi models to start up later.

 

(Reuters)