PSA e Punch Powertrain: JV per l'ibridazione

[Beckervdo]

Cita

We are excited to share that we expand our cooperation with Groupe PSA! Signing our second Joint Venture agreement, we will support Groupe PSA’s strategic objectives, while also realizing our mission: providing vehicle electrification at an affordable cost! The new JV will focus on developing, manufacturing, and supplying our electrified DT2 dual clutch transmissions to Groupe PSA and other carmakers worldwide. This cooperation underlines Punch Powertrain’s cutting edge product design and reflects the carmakers’ confidence in our technology leadership!

http://www.punchpowertrain.com/en/news/58/groupe-psa-and-punch-powertrain-expand-strategic-partnership-in-electrification

[TONI]

questo, e qualsiasi altro accordo di partnership, preso allo scadere della loro indipendenza come gruppo mi fa nascere delle domande : ne hanno parlato con fca, dopo la fusione ne usufruirà tutto il gruppone o si dovrà rinegoziare il tutto ? non è che la dichiarazione che fino a fusione avvenuta i due gruppi si sarebbero comportati come concorrenti è stata presa troppo alla lettera ?

[nucarote]

Se è per questo anche FCA poco dopo l'annuncio della fusione ha acquisito partecipazioni all'interno di startup che si occupano di elettrificazione.

Comunque in questo accordo parrebbe portare un DSG per le MHEV, che pare non esserci nella banca organi di FCA e PSA. 

Modificato 2 Giugno 2020 da nucarote

[Bare]

I don't like this call and of course I prefer Canadians/Magna over Chinese/Punch.

[TONI]

1 ora fa, nucarote scrive:

Se è per questo anche FCA poco dopo l'annuncio della fusione ha acquisito partecipazioni all'interno di startup che si occupano di elettrificazione.

 

si il mio dubbio era per entrambi i fronti ; non so se queste JV poi saranno incompatibili a fusione avvenuta. Magari stanno testando questi gruppi e quelli che "supereranno l' esame" verranno tenuti a bordo 

[iDrive]

Ci vuole anche modelli sul mercato nel 2021-2023, e questo non si farà con la fusione... e normale che i 2 gruppi (che ancora non hanno accordo) vanno avanti come se non ci fosse fusione, la quale non esiste ancora e può saltare tutto finché non c’è la firma finale (che secondo me non ci sarà prima di marzo 2021).

[TONI]

hai ragione ma certi accordi normalmente si fanno con un respiro più ampio e non credo che alla firma dell' accordo abbiano preso impegni per un biennio e poi amici come prima

[Pawel72]

Stavo giusto leggendo , ma da dove vengono ecc ?

 

Cita

Punch Powertrain is an independent full system supplier of fuel efficient powertrains. With over 45 years of experience in the production of CVTs, Punch Powertrain also offers electric powertrains for New Energy Vehicles such as Hybrids (48V &PHEVs) and Electric Vehicles (EVs), as well as DCTs.

Punch Powertrain is an international player, with a strong presence in Europe and China. In addition to the headquarter in Sint-Truiden, Belgium, the company runs 6 more R&D centers, located in Germany (2), France (1), the Netherlands (1) and China (1), allowing close cooperation with the customer and short communication lines. Economies of scale are achieved by concentrating production in 3 facilities in Belgium and China.

 

[Bare]

Flexible Fleet Hybridization with ‘Native Hybrid’ DCT Range
 

Quote

 

Electrification of powertrains is on the rise, in order to meet the environmental targets. This trend typically increases powertrain size, cost and complexity at the production line. A new approach emerges to tackle these challenges: a DCT, which is designed as 48V hybrid, with the conventional (non-hybrid) and high voltage strong hybrid being derivatives. Basing all 3 variants on one design allows adjustment of the fleet electrification mix with minimal effort.

 

An additional merit of the design is its compactness, as it takes up no more space than a conventional DCT. This was enabled by a new way of realizing the dual clutch principle. By linking a planetary gearset to one of the two clutches, a shiftable pre-reduction in front of transmission gearsets emerges. This allows to substantially reduce the amount of components and leaves space for an integrated e-machine.

 

1 Electric Vehicles (EVs) Need
While EVs need evolution time to mature, substantial reduction of CO2 emissions cannot wait [1]. Massive introduction of hybrids (mild, full and plug-in) is required to address this in a balanced way and allow both production and market to absorb the gradual on-cost.

 

The introduction of a flexible and integrated hybrid DCT platform, both available with 48V or high voltage e-motor is a logical choice for regions, already having a strong legacy in MT/DCT adoption (such as EU, China, India and South America). Cost-effectiveness can be achieved if the hybrid is not designed as a niche product, but as the new standard automatic that is able to be fitted in the OEM’s entire front-transverse platform program, regardless of the (continuously adjusting) mix in mild, full or plug-in hybrids.

 

2 Unique DCT Concept
2.1 Strongly Reduced Amount of Components
This DCT concept introduces a new way of realizing the dual clutch principle. By linking a planetary gearset to one of the two clutches, a shiftable pre-reduction in front of transmission gearsets emerges.

In this set-up, the new DCT called “DT2” (and also its predecessor DT1) makes each gearset in the gearbox available for 2 distinct transmission ratios; one when closing the normal clutch and the second by closing the static clutch (brake) of the planetary gearset. So, the 2 DCT “clutches” can connect to the same gearset by (pre-)synchronizing from one input shaft to the other. This is not seen in other in-market DCTs. Fig. 1

 

2.2 Seven Speeds for Optimal Gear Ratio
In theory, these principles imply that (for example) just 4 forward gearsets (8 gear wheels) inside the main gear cluster could enable a 8DCT, albeit with a number of gear dependencies and less flexible ratio design. Instead, we chose to create a unique 7DCT structure with less gear dependencies, leading to increased fuel efficiency and driver comfort.

 

2.3 Tailored Shifting
These valuable benefits, however, do come with a minor compromise. In case of the DT1 both 3rd and 4th gear are selected by engaging the braked planetary ratio. Therefore, to powershift from 3rd to 4th gear, the clutch is shortly sliding on 5th gear to provide shift time for synchronizer S01 (Fig. 1) towards 4th gear. Through sophisticated controls, this is unnoticeable for shifts at low to medium power. For shifting maximum engine torque some driveability specialists might slightly feel this “supported” 3/4 shift. For the application range of DT1 (120–200Nm) this overall drive quality is more than sufficient. In case of DT2 (230–350Nm) we configured the gear topology in such a way that only the 6/7 shift is slightly different from the other standard DCT shifts. In day-to-day driving this is unnoticed as 6/7 shifts usually occur at low power, when the driver reverts to a cruising mode at high vehicle speed. Nevertheless a full power kick-down shift from 7th to 5th gear is possible without compromise, particularly including electric machine boosting in case of the hybrid variants.

 

 

https://drivetrain-symposium.world/flexible-fleet-hybridization-with-native-hybrid-dct-range/

[p.fina]

On 6/2/2020 at 4:02 PM, TONI said:

questo, e qualsiasi altro accordo di partnership, preso allo scadere della loro indipendenza come gruppo mi fa nascere delle domande : ne hanno parlato con fca, dopo la fusione ne usufruirà tutto il gruppone o si dovrà rinegoziare il tutto ? non è che la dichiarazione che fino a fusione avvenuta i due gruppi si sarebbero comportati come concorrenti è stata presa troppo alla lettera ?

 

Un mio carissimo amico che lavora in FCA, sentito al telefono giusto ieri sera, mi ha detto che sta lavorando da settimane con il suo omologo in PSA e ciò avviene per tutta la parte di ingegneria.. Mi ha detto che stanno lavorando congiuntamente anche alle piattaforme

Modificato 6 Giugno 2020 da p.fina