Transizione ecologica ed il futuro della mobilità

[renegade71]

5 ore fa, libbio scrive:

Ancora non è chiaro che anche con l'euro 15 la co2 viene emessa esattamente come come con la euro 0?il problema è l'auto termica in se purtroppo.

Certo la CO2 è propria della combustione ma comunque i motori di 15 anni fa a parità di cilindrata e potenza ne emettevano di più e comunque se il problema è la CO2 non ne è esente nemmeno l'elettrico se, come dovrebbe essere, prendiamo in considerazione tutto il ciclo di "costruzione" e vita di un auto elettrica 

6 ore fa, alfagtv scrive:

Ehm non credo che sia così facile,anche perche' le auto incentivate non vanno dal demolitore o almeno ci va solo una piccola parte,le altre vengono solo spostate da un altra parte del mondo libere di inquinare.

Hai ragione, ma questi accade anche dando indietro una ICE per comprare una bev, andrebbero obbligatoriamente rottamate

3 ore fa, Wilhem275 scrive:

Ricordo che qui non diamo spazio a discussioni politiche basate su questa o quella parte (a proposito di essere mossi dall'ideologia...).

 

In tutti i casi è una lettura estremamente parziale delle istanze politiche che stanno dietro la transizione in Europa.

Forse hai ragione ma non trovo altra spiegazione dell'ideologia nell'imporre l'elettrico 

[xtom]

Ci si concentra troppo sulla questione CO2 invece di comprendere che la combustione è un modo poco efficiente e pulito di produrre energia.

 

La C02 è un parametro oggettivo che indica quanta combustione viene utilizzata per produrre energia, l’obiettivo non è solo ridurre la CO2 climalterante, ma ridurre progressivamente la combustione, che provoca emissioni inquinanti e ci rende dipendenti dalle forniture di petrolio.

 

 

[4200blu]

2 ore fa, xtom scrive:

ma ridurre progressivamente la combustione, che provoca emissioni inquinanti e ci rende dipendenti dalle forniture di petrolio.

 

...si si, molto meglio come bruciare benzina cin un motore Eu6final o Eu7 e naturalmente bruciare carbone e lignite in centrale elettriche come fanno i tedeschi, perché altrimenti, senza attivare questa riserva sporca, la quantità della elettricita prodotta non è nemmeno lontanamente sufficiente.

L'idea con la mobilita elettrica molto probabile non e falso, ma non si deve fare il secondo e terzo passo prima del primo, questa e l'problema.

 

 

E con il divieto dei riscaldamenti di gas a favore delle pompe di calora anche per case vecchie iniziando l'anno prossimo fanno lo stesso errore ancora una volta.

 

 

 

Modificato 19 Marzo 2023 da 4200blu

[4200blu]

I produttori top12 globale delle bev e lo sviluppo del loro volume tra 2021-->2022 assoluto e percentuale:

 

 

 

[4200blu]

 

BERLIN/BRUSSELS -- The European Commission has drafted a plan allowing sales of new cars with internal combustion engines that run only on climate-neutral e-fuels, in an attempt to resolve a spat with Germany over the EU's phasing out of combustion-engine cars from 2035.

The draft proposal, seen by Reuters on Tuesday, suggests creating a new type of vehicle category in the European Union for cars that can only run on carbon-neutral fuels.

Such vehicles would have to use technology that would prevent them from driving if other fuels are used, the draft said. This would include a "fueling inducement system" to stop the car from starting if it was fueled by non-carbon-neutral fuels, it said.

The proposal could offer a route for automakers to keep selling combustion-engine vehicles after 2035, the date when a planned EU law is set to ban the sale of new CO2-emitting cars.

After months of negotiations, EU countries and the European Parliament agreed the law last year. But Germany's Transport Ministry surprised other countries this month by lodging last-minute objections to the law, days before a final vote that would have seen it enter into force.

The Ministry's core demand is that the EU allow sales of new cars running on e-fuels after 2035. On Tuesday, it said it was in contact with the Commission to try to reach a solution on an issue being closely watched by Germany's powerful car industry.

"We are interested in a quick clarification, but it must be resilient and binding. We are currently examining this carefully," a spokesperson said.

Two sources familiar with the matter said the Commission's condition that cars must be able to recognise CO2-neutral fuels from fossil fuels was problematic for Germany because it would largely force automakers to develop new engines.

German Transport Minister Volker Wissing did not want to completely reject the Commission's proposal, but rather make some improvements to it, the sources told Reuters.

The parties are aiming to secure an agreement by Thursday's EU summit.

A Commission spokesperson declined to comment on the draft document, but referred to comments by EU climate policy chief Frans Timmermans, who said last week any solution must comply with the 2035 phaseout law agreed last year.

"The talks are ongoing between the Commission and the German authorities," the spokesperson said.

E-fuels are not yet produced at scale. A study published on Tuesday by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Research found that all planned e-fuel projects worldwide would only produce enough fuel to cover 10 percent of Germany's demand for use in aviation, shipping and chemicals in the next few years.

 

(Reuters)

 

 

[J-Gian]

Il rischio di scivolare in un attimo sulla politica però è concreto, perciò - in caso di repliche - considerate la possibilità che eventuali messaggi vengano per forza di cose nascosti.

[4200blu]

 

Brussels, 21 March 2023 – Ahead of this week’s European Council Summit, where EU leaders will address EU competitiveness, the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA) is re-iterating its call to speed up action to secure the EU’s industrial base during the green transition.

 

Speaking at a hearing in the European Parliament in Brussels today, ACEA President and CEO of Renault Group, Luca de Meo stated: “Europe and its auto industry are at a turning point. The challenges are huge, as is the pressure on the auto industry.”

“Today, European vehicle manufacturers are facing a very asymmetrical challenge. We are no longer leading the technological race,” said de Meo. “At the same time, as purchase incentives for zero-emission vehicles wane in the EU, we note massive support to our competitors in China and the US. All of this is happening in a context where overall European competitiveness is eroding.”

ACEA Director General, Sigrid de Vries, explained: “A major challenge for the automotive sector over the last years has been the sheer volume of new legislation, spanning from tailpipe CO2-emissions reduction to the incorporation of sustainability and due diligence criteria into automotive-related legislation. And while the legitimacy of these initiatives is not in question, and industry heavily invests in delivering on their goals, Europe can and should do better for legislation to be coherent, achievable and competitive in a global context.”

“The recent Euro 7 proposal on pollutant emissions is a prime example of a regulation that will add complexity and uncertainty to key decisions and investments of European vehicle makers, without bringing the environmental benefits it claims to deliver,” she continued.

The Euro 6 standard in place today, together with the ramp up of electric vehicles, has the potential to deliver an 80% reduction in NOx emissions by 2035 compared with 2020. The Euro 7 proposal would bring at most 4 additional points for cars, and 2 additional points for trucks. This marginal impact would come at a high cost: ACEA estimates that the Euro 7 proposal would result in an increase of €2,000 to the price of a new car on average. This means that many people would be forced to extend the lives of their old cars, with a counterproductive effect on the environment and climate.

“Since fleet renewal is the most powerful tool to curb both CO2 and pollutant emissions, we should be looking for ways to accelerate it,” said de Meo. “We must also consider additional opportunities, using the right tools and acting where it makes sense. For air quality, we should focus on big urban areas, respecting the subsidiarity and proportionality principles, because this is where it is a real issue.”

 

(ACEA)

 

 

[UomoAlfa]

14 ore fa, jameson scrive:

Timmermans ha rotto il cazzo. A questi euroburocrati va fatto capire con le buone o con le cattive che dovremmo essere in democrazia, dove decide il popolo e non gente schiaffata lì a vegetare come lui.

[4200blu]

 

https://www.quattroruote.it/news/industria-finanza/2023/03/24/_2035_de_meo_il_motore_endotermico_e_ormai_morto_il_futuro_e_elettrico_.html

 

 

[xtom]

Cita

Il percorso di addio alle endotermiche è da considerarsi "irreversibile" anche per le politiche varate dai produttori di componentistica. "Tutti i fornitori Tier 1 stanno abbandonando completamente gli investimenti sui motori a combustione", ha concluso. 

 

Altro che 2035, se va bene nel 2030 non ci sono più i pezzi per costruire ICE.