Bare

No and no

Why do you think that fiat made confusion? Small is smaller than compact, these are the official names of the platforms. The model's name won't be "compact", that's only the title of the topic. Maybe we made confusion .

By the way, as far as I'm concerned this car will be more a large B-segment than a true C-segment.

I don't get you.

So you have prejudice about FIAT's definition of modular platform but not for VW's?

I don't have any concern about future C-segment FIAT models. We are not talking about Linea which was just a stretched Punto, this platform is also widened. So I'm 100% sure we will not see a disaster similar to Škoda Rapid.

Do we talk about modular platforms or not? Do you have prejudice regarding Passat B8 is on Compact(MQB from Golf 7) platform or not? Yes, FIAT made confusion with naming platform Small or Compact. But if you look wheelbase or track width dimensions for 500L or 500X they are very close or on par with VW Golf so platform derived from them with some modifications is a C-segment platform.

Yeah, entry level engine will be a boxer with torque of a hamster while top of the line will be V6 120^o.

@ RVC

Porsche is using ZF's DCT while BMW is with Getrag.

Off-course I thought about future Alfa Romeo's models. We will not see DDCT in Alfa with longitudinal engine. I still dream about C-segment Alfa with longitudinal engine but with boxer and FWD.

I do not believe we will see DDCT in Alfa but DWCT is probable for top version.

It's a track width which defines to which segment platform belongs. 500L and especially 500X/Renegade have track width common to C-segment and not to B-segment.

What I want to see from FIAT is what you say berlina 3 volumi with 5th door or in other words something similar to Škoda Octavia. IMO, it's more practical to have a car with 5th door instead of small opening characteristic to sedans.

@ Sadman

As I know they will replace steer by wire with hydraulic servo in Q50S.

Front (risen) double wishbone and rear multilink is the standard: also BMW, Audi and Mercedes use the same scheme. Also, it's what the 159 had.

I thought that F30 is using McPherson front suspension while B8 is using five link front suspension?

Ah si, e perché mai? Guarda la Q50, dinamicamente come macchina è meglio della serie 3 ma ha un volante elettronico che purtroppo fa pena...basta quello per demolire molto del lavoro fatto.

Basta poco, in altre parole. Aspettiamo a vedere l'orso prima di vendere la pelle

Comunque la mia era una risposta al post che ho citato.

I think that Infiniti Q50 is the car that almost everyone underestimates. It's interesting that future Giulia will have similar front(double wishbone) and rear(multilink) suspension as Q50 while it will also have around 4.75 m in length.

Is It possible switch from rwd to fwd without any issues ?

I think it's hard to believe, because they will lost economy of scale with the future charger based on "giorgio platform".

Basically FWD or RWD with longitudinal engine only differs in engine placing. Although IMO they could just alter CUSW for longitudinal engine placement and make turbocharged V6 as biggest engine, at least is FIAT known for that(hint: Alfa 145/146).

IMO, Charger could share future modular RWD platform with some other Dodge or other American product.

Ok, in this sense, we will not see Pentastar badge in any FCA models but Chrysler's. Seriously, a Pentastar - derived engine , probably turbocharged, has a very high probability to motorize the AR Sedan.

I think we can see a V6 engine derived from American V6 block for future Alfa. But it's nothing different with 2.0 I4. It will (most probably) also have an American engine block.

When we are talking about future engines than we must take Chinese market into consideration. Very important displacements back there are 1600, 2000 and 3000. IMO, Alfa will have that engine displacements.

They have many discussions on Allpar. I must say than many of them are without credit.

Basically they are expecting future Chrysler 100 to use SUSW modular platform but not with same dimensions as Renegade/500X.

There is also intriguing discussion about future Chrysler 300. There is valid possibility that it will switch from RWD to FWD for next generation but with longitudinal engine similar as Audi.

Pentastar is just a head design designation.

Non c'e' mica solo il Pentastar Audi e BMW hanno due 6 cilindri turbo da 3.0 cc che vanno dai 300 cv in su

A base Pentastar un 3.0 turbo non è un'utopia .

I doubt we will see Pentastar in Alfa or in any other Italian product.

Few things are odd from the plan.

I doubt they will offer a 2.2 diesel with 120 HP, it does not make a sense. Logical solution in that case will be to use 1.6 diesel for it but with that we can open new debate. If know that 1.6 and 2.0 came for the same engine family than logical solution would be to offer them both for longitudinal orientation. Let's say 1.6 with 120 HP and 320 Nm and 2.0 with 150 Hp and 380 Nm for future Giulia.

That will leave open door for 2.2 diesel because if it has aluminium block it will have less weight than current 2.0 and if it will have 450 Nm of torque with ~190 HP.

For me it will not be odd if they choose to not offer 3.0 V6 diesel in Giulia. Currently there is to to small capacity in VM's plant. So if they are going to make 2.2 diesel with two turbines and ~230 Hp and ~500 Nm (limit with both ZF 8HP45 and 8HP50 for diesel engines).

I do not believe they will offer 1.4 FIRE in midsize sedan. I think they are testing it for some other/future cars.

What's odd to me is to see that almost nobody is talking about 1.75 Tbi for next Giulia. I doubt they put all that money for development of new version with aluminium block just to use in 4C and Giulietta QV.

Also I believe it will be a 3.0 V6 whether it will be Italian or American block. Even if they use Italian block for most powerful versions I think it has enough high deck for 3 liter displacement.

No, they said that giulia and suv will have the same platform, know as "Giorgio".

È ormai noto che a Cassino Alfa realizzerà la Giulia, la compatta destinata a sfondare sul mercato americano e il suv di segmento C.

​Did I misunderstood something?

Fca, Marchionne da Detroit: ora Mirafiori potrebbe assumere - Repubblica.it

L'articolo dice che il suv sarà un segmento C, novità per me, quindi andrà a competere con il q3 e x1 e glk ?

They also said that upcoming Giulia is compact?!

C-segment sedan is most important for US, Chinese and similar markets where hatchback is not well accepted. After all we say anything but for me 156 was nothing else than C-segment sedan.

Io la preferirei più compatta, max 4,6mt. Poi magari non darà l'impressione di essere così lunga

They must leave place for possible C-segment sedan.

For me it's not about RWD vs FWD but longitudinal vs transverse engine orientation. With longitudinal engine you can put transmission which can endure higher torque figures and also you have advantage for AWD.

Mi sa che il twin scroll sul V6 non è possibile, ci vogliono 4 cilindri e la giusta sequenza di scoppio

Edit: probabilmente come applicazione tra le due bancate, cioè monoturbo al centro della V, allora probabilmente funziona anche sul V6 (tipo il V8 BMW). In effetti sul 6 in linea è fattibile.

Single twin-scroll on 6 cylnder engine? It's doable with single turbine and if you have an even firing order but not with two turbines.

Il 2.0 4l dubito sia con TC singolo(come il 2.0 AMG,che effettivamente è piuttosto appuntito e non ha un'erogazione godibilissima ai bassi,soprattutto se confrontato a un V6 turbo),più probabile(o più auspicabile) sia biturbo o turbo +volumetrico(come il nuovo VEA Volvo) o a limite turbo + compressore elettrico(difficile,ma sarebbe bello visto che sarebbe tra i primi a proporre questa tecnologia sui motori di serie).

Torque and power curves from the next to pictures will show why ~350 HP from 2.0 single-turbocharged engine is not a good solution.

This is for Mercedes M133 engine ehich can be found in AMG 45 models. It has a single twin-scroll turbochargers. Even 1.75 TBi with 200 HP from 2009 had more low end torque.

And that picture shows power and torque curve for Maserati's 330 HP V6. Nobody can deny that V6 offers much better bottom end.

Certo che un 2.0 da 340cv sono 170cv/l,ci vuole un blocco closed-deck!!!:mrgreen:

Ad es. Il 2.0 da 360cv m133 della A AMG è un closed, a differenza del m170 da cui deriva.... stessa cosa il 6l biturbo della M3 rispetto al 6l turbo Twinscroll n55 da cui deriva .

If I'm not mistake M133 is based on M270/M274 which are open deck design. There are other examples where performance engine uses closed deck block and is based on open deck design like engine in Nissan GT-R.

Turbine Twin Scroll su un V6 non credo proprio, a meno che non mandi tutti e 6 i cilindri sulla stessa turbina.

Didn't BMW put twin-scroll turbo on I3 B38 engine? If that's true than it's possible to have V6 with two twin scroll turbos. I must admit that I don't know how twin-scroll could work on 3 cylinders.

only if you use traditional solutions. but if you have a way to fill up that torque void at low RPMs, you could do that

It depends what are more traditional solutions. IMO, twincharger is unorthodox solution whether with mechanical or electric supercharger.

For this power level, it would be utilized the 3.0 v6 architecture, perhaps with a single turbo, as bmw does.

I would agree for you if I'm look for relatively inexpensive more traditional solution where there is not replacement for displacement and where single twin-scroll turbo will do just fine. But, as RVC told, they are planing 4cl engines for up to 340 HP and 6cl form 400 HP. It's odd desision but id you look at sales projection than it's difficult they could achieve it without good numbers in China where they have annual taxation system based on engine displacement.

In my opinion, 90% of voices about ar engines are simply ....voices

We know we will have ( for gasoline engine ) a 4l wirh different powers, probably with 2.0 litresisplacement.

and a v6 turbo with 3.0 ( more or less ) dmc displacement, derived by actual pentastar, but with big modifications.

both engines shall have to be produced in the actual lines.

I know that anything is not yet official and than we can call all this just a rumor.

I just talked about some technical obstacles with current blocks or with using 2.0 liter engine for up to 340 HP. I doubt they can make turbo engine with 2 liters and 340 HP without (highly) noticeable turbo lag.

It's no wonder that Italian car-industry is in such a problems when some (Italian) guys constantly bashing it and consider foreign car-makers superior to Italian.

When we are talking about V6 engines 90^o nor 60^o are ideal. Yes, 60^o is more desirable solution but 90^o can offer some other advantages like sharing production line with V8 or even V10 (as in Audi's case), somewhat lower center of gravity or place ti install turbochargers/superchargers between cylinder banks.

As I remember Maserati designed and produced one of the first V6 90^o engines?

IMO, there is no question about quality of American V6 block and it's one of the best if not the best open deck block in production. Unfortunately it's open deck design is it's biggest issue for higher revving engine than that one in Maserati.

There is question about I4 engines in future Alfa's offerings. They intend to offer 340 HP 2.0 I4 engine while they will not offer similarly powerful V6 engine. I doubt they will offer engine as AMG with its 2.0 turbo, such a kind of engine is not suitable for V6 replacement. The best solution to substitute V6 with I4 powerplant is to offer twincharged engine similar to new Volvo's T6 engine.

Il v6 ha potenze tra 450 e 520

And probably also 410 HP. After all rumors says Alfieri will be on Giorgio on at least at modified one.

You know

him for some time this plan. was

wondering why I had felt that

someone knew the real power of

the v6 alfa romeo. According to my

information its power should be for

the green cloverleaf around 500cv

I doubt that power will differ compared to Maserati's applications. If you look at Alfa's 5 year plan than it's clearly visible that V6 units will produce somwhere around 400 HP to over 500 HP.

Mi pare di aver capito che per Alfa Romeo stanno realizzando un 2.9 V6 nuovo, derivato dal 3.8 V8 della Ferrari California, quindi sulla Progetto 952 non verranno montati i 3.0 Maserati.

It's a 3.9 liter V8 engine in California. Or it's derived from Quattroporte's 3.8 V8. That two V8 engines share block and bore size of 96.5 mm although they have different stroke. Who said that V6 derived can't have longer stroke than these two to make 3.0 V6?