Bare

@dbing

They said it's a classified technology. 

I was thinking about some kind of REEV.

One interesting thing which went under the radar.

In the EU they said that Stellantis will have 70% of BEV in sales mix in 2030.

At the same tome they said that even before Fiat and Opel will be BEV only. Such plans were even before communicated for DS. 

The same will happen with Alfa Romeo according to internal plans.

Basically this leads us to conclusion that all ICE/MHEV sales will go to just 2 brands. Citroen and Peugeot.

Nice play from French I must say. They secured Citroen and Peugeot as (by far) the best selling Stellantis' brands in Europe.

Guys, Tonale will be a very nice car. Maybe it could be better but I'm sure that it will be excellent for driving even in base versions if we compare it to direct competitors.

1 hour ago, __P said:

Si ma infatti sarà un buona SUV di segmento C, con una gamma motori performante anche sul lato emissioni. Con un po’ di più attenzione ai dettagli potrebbe essere stata ottima.

Rimarranno delusi solo quelli che si aspettano una supercar o che la confronteranno con auto dai listìni ben più importanti.

Poi ovvio, i gusti estetici son personali.

I'm concerned about 2 things. How much aluminium will they use and where?

And the 2nd is luggage space. As we know luggage space is the biggest drawback of Small Wide 4x4 cars. It's a consequence of using rear MacPherson suspension. Multilink, even a simple one, would be a better choice. 

27 minutes ago, HF integrale said:

 

Mi sembra che passi tutti per la Francia, e non sto parlando di decisionale ma di progettazione. 

Credo che ogni centro R&D avrà una missione...se a Torino/Italia togli la Small, la Compact, e la Giorgio...non capisco cosa rimarrà...sembra che tutto venga supervisionato da Parigi

Chief Engineering Officer is in Torino. I'm talking about Harald Wester.

Even Chief of Design for Europe, Ploue, has relocated from Paris to Torino.

Yes, a lot of managerial positions are taken by French or Americans but a lot of development will be done in Italy.

I must say that the Tonale MHEV will have a class leading CO2 emissions in comparison to what you can buy today from competitors with a 1.5 turbo engines.

6 hours ago, pennellotref said:

 

Premetto: solo a titolo informativo, nessuna polemica. Tesla è, a detta di qualunque addetto ai lavori, l'azienda più avanti in termini di chimica ed efficienza del package delle batterie ed ovviamente in termini di autonomia. Però una Tesla Model 3 perde dal 35 al 40% della percorrenza ad una temperatura al di sotto dei 5 gradi centigradi. Provato da più di qualche rivista/sito di settore in USA....

Questo è un problema cui le case costruttrici devono garantire adeguata soluzione prima possibile.

At 5°C or -5°C?

At -5°C it has 40% drop. That's for sure. Of course if cabin heating is on.

Kid is planned as the last Alfa Romeo model with ICE but also the first with BEV. Model after the Kid will be the first BEV only.

21 minutes ago, The Krieg said:

Come 3? Small non è derivata da eCmp?

Comunque rabbrividisco al pensiero di una Giulietta chiamata Alfetta

CMP isn't good for A segment. Even for B, classic B, it's rather small ok the inside.

And sometimes you should read between the lines.

STLA Small base electric motor has power as the one on the new Fiat 500.

So it seems that STLA Small is eMini's fork.

Late this year Chrysler should have China bound BEV model based on GAC A12.

Not even GSE or GME. 😂

One interesting thing. 3 out of 4 STLA platforms look like heritage FCA platforms while only STLA Medium is from PSA side. You know, the one which is perfect for DS-ied Alfa e-Romeo.

Ah. If I haven't been clear.

Under FCA green lit were Stelvio, Giulia, Tonale and Kid.

Under PSA you will have Stelvio, Giulia, Giulietta (internally known as Alfetta), Tonale and Kid. 

And that's it from models which can make numbers. No E-segment cars.

Big change. Isn't it?

@pennellotref

Mate Rimac agrees with you. Well, at least partially. In the future most people will not own a car. They will rent it or share it. Or as you say they will use foot.

Who not see it is foolish. 

BTW. What I like about Mate Rimac is his sincereness when he speaks about BEV cars. 

P.S.

He drives Ferrari privately.

1 minute ago, xtom said:

Il problema è più il cambiamento culturale di tanti automobilisti, come la maggior parte dei commenti dimostra.

It's not so easy. You must think about charging spots, charging speed and battery life. And we forget one thing. In the future they will start to charge for car charging and it will not be cheap. What then? Already VAG on their chargers in America has very high price of charging.

I forgot it. Mate Rimac said on Croatian TV that in the near future most of the people will not own a car.

3 minutes ago, livio78 said:

L'ibrido è la cosa più inutile e tecnicamente complessa da realizzare: devi fondere necessariamente due sistemi con dei costi più alti e lo scopo finale (inquinare il meno possibile) non viene raggiunto. Giusto valutare il solo motore elettrico. 

On the production side that's true and if you ask crazy Green parties. People let's go to elections and punish all parties with green policies about cars.

But on the usability side you can use your PHEV in EV mode for commute and on a long journey you can use it as an ICE car with very quick and easy refill which is something which is not so easy with BEVs not to mention that fast chargers mean shorter battery life cycle.

57 minutes ago, __P said:

Perché Grecale dovrebbe avere vita breve? 🤔

 

Comunque Imparato ha parlato di Cassino come stabilimento cardine di AR.

Se la kid la fai in Polonia, capisci che gli altri 5 modelli o li fai tutti su Medium a Cassino, o le linee le differenzi.

Tonale II is planned for Melfi.

50 minutes ago, gilerak said:

Forse le cose stanno così:

Large e Frame saranno per auto grandi e multi-energia. Pensate principalmente per il NA dove la transizione elettrica sarà più lunga che in Europa. Quindi supporteranno a pieno anche motori termici.

Medium potrebbe essere solo BEV o comunque fortemente incentrata su BEV. E visto che le future auto (dal 2025?) dei marchi europei, se ho capito bene, saranno solo BEV, Medium sarà la piattaforma più evoluta (anche perché non andranno oltre il D come segmento).

Però non sappiamo come sarà. Potrebbe anche essere una piattaforma valida nel campo delle piattaforme elettriche.

Quindi le future Alfa D probabilmente saranno solo BEV e su Medium. Poi se dopo vorranno fare anche delle E magari saranno su Large.

Da capire se delle Alfa BEV su Medium possano essere appetibili anche in USA.

 

 

STLA Medium is no more evolved than STLA Large if we speak about BEV models. Both platforms are multienergy.

So Alfa Romeo as BEV only is pure marketing choice. My opinion is that American management do not like Alfa Romeo and they got blessing for French which just have applied plan DS on Alfa Romeo. So basically we are getting Italian DS in terms of mechanical base.

Do you know what is Alfa Romeo Alfetta for monsieur Imparato? It's Alfa C-segment, i.e. next generation Giulietta.

Some here already said that Duetto could be a C-segment specialty based on STLA Medium. I didn't say it.

For sure what I know that there is no Alfa E-segment models in the plan. And plan goes all the way to the end of 2030. And range is limited. 5 models + specialty. Already FCA green lit 4 models in total. So PSA basically gives only one additional model which is C-segment/Giulietta.

3 minutes ago, jeby said:

Guardando la presentazione, dal minuto 1 ora e 15 io vedo delle piattaforme simil-skateboard con batterie sotto il pianalone... roba dedicata al BEV, non capisco il discorso di @Bare ma mi adeguo  

 

Quando si parla di Large le dimensioni che dà sono da segmento E, e in Alfa non esistono segmenti E

PSA EMP2 v4 also known as PSA eVMP and it seems also known as STLA Medium

STLA Large is, as it now seems, Giorgio fork as was developed by American engineers for Dodge. It was designed as multi-energy architecture from get go.

I know internal name but I will not say it here. 

The smallest cars on it will be roughly the same size as Stelvio. 4.70m x 1.90m is the smallest. 

It seems that most of the North American line up will be on STLA Large, even some pick-ups.

7 minutes ago, 4200blu said:

 

...si, come Tesla Dual Motor e Taycan (2 motori), S Plaid e Audi e-tron S (3 motori).

 

Maserati Folgore on Giorgio base will have 3 electric motors. Even MC20 will have them.

22 minutes ago, KimKardashian said:

Ma che significa che le Maserati elettriche avranno solo 330 kW / 450 CV? 

3 x 330 kW, maybe even 4x 330 kW.

22 minutes ago, LUCAFUSAR said:

STLA medium potrà essere anche TP o solo TA?

Not important if suspension scheme and some design ethos are connected with a platform.

Look at suspension on Giorgio and compare it to EMP2 like for example 508.

Look at the sideline on Giulia and compare it to 508.

One has shirt snout and backward cabinet while the other has long snout and cabforward look.

Which is more sexy from the side?

The entirely different speech would be dedicated BEV platform but they aren't doing it. They are doing multienergy platforms which should be as cheap as possible not just in production but also for factory modernization costs. 

4 minutes ago, dasilvamj said:

Cioò significa che Tonale sarà anche Diesel? O ti riferisci a Giulia e Stelvio?

Tonale

It says: "STLA Medium is designed for our premium DS and Alfa Romeo brand vehicles" 

Exactly like that, by Harald Wester

3 minutes ago, ItalianBrands said:

About Alfa Romeo, I suppose D/E segment cars will be on Large platform while the rest on CMP or whatever is called. 

It could be the same for Lancia unless they want a Lancia closer to DS. 

There will not be E segment Alfa Romeo models. Not before 2031. At least 2031.

Most Alfa Romeo models will be on cheap and technically inferior STLA Medium platform. At least we can read it like that between the lines.

Maserati will use STLA Large. But Maserati is in American and not French orbit.

What did I say some time ago?

STLA Medium - Premium vehicles

STLA Large - AWD Performance & American Muscle

Fuck PSA! Fuck French!