pumadog

Didn't Capellano just re-confirm the new generation in Atessa for 2028?

1 ora fa, Graziano68dt scrive:

La risposta sta nel "doppio ramo".

Come Fiat ha il ramo del filone della "dolce vita"(500/600/Topolino) e il ramo "Rational"(G.Panda/Grizzly/Doblò), anche AR deve avere due rami.

Il ramo del prodotto "Emotional"(Giulia/Stelvio/Bottega) e il ramo "Rational"(Junior, Giulietta, Tonale).

Una linea USA oriented, un'altra UE oriented...

All Alfas must be emotional to justify this little brand. It's rather for the people <—> for the wealthy enthusiast then.

I think if the top Stellantis management decides to kill brands, they won't tell anyone much before the announcement. And if it happens, it won't happen in a minute but rather after the current models end their lifetime. An integration into mother brands is more likely anyway. And if DS stands for some posh models of Citroën, they still have to market them.

3 ore fa, Beckervdo scrive:

Non c'era più budget né per la Wagon né per la Coupé né per Stelvio-Castello.

Some really bad calculation then. D segment wagons didn't cease to exist in Europe, but we lost even Passat sedan. A Giulia SW would have doubled sales here for little extra budget. Alfa is still euro-centric and had a wagon customer base after 156 and 159 SW.

13 ore fa, stev66 scrive:

Sw = meno rigidezza = meno tenuta di strada .

Sw con uguale tenuta di strads = piu' peso.

La fisica e' una stronza ( cit. ) 😄

SW and fastback should have very similar structure. SW just adds roof length.

European COO Emanuele Cappellano seems to have confirmed some things in Mimit meetings today. Sources are scattered, maybe you find something better than me: https://de.marketscreener.com/boerse-nachrichten/stellantis-wird-die-produktion-in-italien-ab-2026-dank-neuer-modelle-steigern-a-europachef-ce7e5bdcdc80fe22

• Additional model for Melfi in 2028 after Gamma and DS No7 (should be Tonale)

• Next 500 in Mirafiori on new platform until 2030 (not eMini)

• Next Panda and two compacts on STLA Small in Pomigliano (as we know)

• Investments for GSE engines in Termoli: Euro 7 and 48V hybrid to live into next decade

• Next Grecale in Cassino

• Third shift in Atessa very soon

I also read an interview-based article (from Bruxelles) recently where it was said that STLA Small will cover A segment.

4 minuti fa, Ale1997 scrive:

Cambiarle nome è un suicidio di Marketing, anzi dovrebbero urlarlo ai quattro venti GIORGIO= MASSIMO DELLE PERFORMANCE STRADALI.

Since when does Fiat Group keep successful names? Continuity must be avoided as usual. 😗

2 minuti fa, 4200blu scrive:

Ma chi, oltre ai tedeschi, acquista ancora oggi una station wagon sul mercato mondiale?

Only Germans in Europe? I read people in American forums who wish for a comeback of wagons, but no clue how many would really buy.

21 minuti fa, led zeppelin scrive:

E poi hanno fatto la Stelvio, che oggettivamente ha venduto probabilmente più di quanto avrebbe fatto una Giulia Sw.

Ma non tutti i padri di famiglia vogliono il suv, nè necessariamente una statiom wagon.

If they dared to, a 5-door fastback/sedan structure should allow a cheaper Sportwagon spin-off.

I'll take a day off when we get to hear that the 2.0 and 3.0 engines are for export only. 🙃

With these news, what do we make of the announcement to have a separate Maserati line in Cassino this fall? Will Grecale on Giorgio Evo switch to a smaller space, so that the main line can be adjusted to Evo Evo (maybe Giorgio Gen. 3 or STLA Large Gx would be better) in late 2027?

I just hope the Giulia Elettrica will be much better than the current Maserati Folgore. It needs to match the Neue Klasse evolution of 2028. Otherwise the ICE variants will make a few Alfisti and enthusiasts happy but fail on the European market, where BEV will be an obligation in the D segment because the majority of sales goes to companies. Alfa needs volume to survive.

On the other hand, what we saw from STLA Large so far was big and heavy and didn't include 800 V systems or STLA Brain yet. Let's hope Alfa gets the best of both worlds. The best mechanics from Giorgio with no compromises on electronics and future-proof powertrains.

1 ora fa, Beckervdo scrive:

Non hai modo di sapere di cosa stai parlando...

STLA-L è già ad 800 V, perché, come ho detto in precedenza, le BEV continuano ad essere evolute, sia lato oltremanica sia lato Modena. Solo che sia Alfa sia Maserati non useranno STLA-L.

Tutto qui.

Are you sure your info is about Giulia/Stelvio and not the Alfa/Maserati sports car twins with manual transmission they talked about?

It's all so confusing. They stopped development of next Maserati Levante and Quattroporte, supposedly decided to switch to STLA Large and now Alfa switches to Giorgio Evo Evo? The global four STLA platforms change for a dozen local specialities again? 🤪

Why should STLA Large be frozen? Alfa needs capable EV variants to have a chance on the 2028+ market.

Replacement of the triangle rear lights is a good move. We've had enough of continuous light bars already.

With the recent uglification and screenification of many dashboards, the look and feel of public transport in premium cars, there's a big opportunity for Alfa to set itself apart with warm and sporty interiors. Just get the materials right!

How many lines are possible in Cassino? I thought the line for STLA Large had already been installed? So is the new line for Giorgio Evo Sport (whatever) and the current line will switch to STLA Large?

1 ora fa, v13 scrive:

Solo un fugace commento su Corsa E restyling (la cugina sorella di G Punto): è vero che ci misero dei soldi, ma tanto quanto con il restyling interno di Punto. Ricordo che all'epoca ne noleggiavo spesso e la qualità delle ultime anche seminuove era assai discutibile. (Tra l'altro anche la famosa Karl, tanto bellina in foto, dal vivo era abbastanza un disastro di pezzi che non stavano su, vibrazioni, spie accese, e quant'altro). Anche Opel non era proprio in belle acque all'epoca.

I'm no fan of the restyling (too baroque) but they invested in new metal all around, new lights, interior and more. A semi-new car like BMW 1er E8x to Fxx. Meanwhile the Punto just got uglified in the old metal. Also no big marketing anymore outside of Italy. And the stupid name changes against any continuity: (Punto) > Grande Punto > Punto Evo > Punto. On the bright side: The facelift was not half as bad as the Punto 2 facelift.

If I remember right, it's production for local African markets only. In contrast to Morocco. When EU and single countries start to subsidize only European BEV, the African products like Grizly will be at a bad place.

3 minuti fa, Jack.Torrance scrive:

Non credo proprio.
Ma probabilmente riceverà le versioni a catena, abbandonando la cinghia.

If the switch from EB2 Gen 2 to Gen 3 didn't happen already, it will now. As for every new or updated model after mid (?) 2023.

I'm most interested in interiour changes. Will it get new door cards or at least softer plastics, less shared switchgear? If so, will the siblings get the changes early?

And will the Tychy BEV trio get a battery update like the EMP2 cars recently got?

Too bad they have absolutely no concept for FIAT in the USA. When they started it was "copy MINI". But FIAT never did the necessary investments and expansion.

If Alfa gets the C model an STLA Small and the next Tonale right, they'd have four models for the market, even without E segment. If tariffs allow.

41 minuti fa, 4200blu scrive:

No production during ramp up is not slower, the line have always the same speed, in an european standard assembly 60 or 90 seconds per work station. The difficulties of a ramp up you manage by higher worker density per station, not per different speed, especially in a mixed line where the different models have different SOP like in the case of the trio polacco, where Avenger was already inroduced long before Junior. You can be sure that there is a problem wirh sales if they cancel one shift from three. We can wait for the moment when they cancel also the second shift because the Trio Has clearly passed its peak.

Thanks for the explanation, interesting! If demand goes down, they have to adjust product/offer like everyone else has to do. I think the former PSA brands have managed longterm sales historically much better than the FCA brands.

37 minuti fa, 4200blu scrive:

But eliminating a shift has nothing to do with increased manpower requirements during a start-up phase. During start-up, you simply run a higher worker density at critical cycles per work cycle. Eliminating a shift, on the other hand, is clearly a question of the required sales volume that is no longer there; otherwise, you don't eliminate a shift.

But if production during start-up is simply slower for the same output, couldn't that cross over the border from three to two shifts when everything runs fine and you don't need the full capacity? That said, I don't want to claim that sales of the trio don't slow down, It's just another factor.

14 ore fa, AndreaB scrive:

Junior già in calo...........

Who says that? The article only mentions "the products" as a unit. But if it is, it would be the normal turn of every modern Alfa: Highest sales in the first full year, then sinking. What Stellantis really needs to address without a doubt are the high list prices of the BEV versions. Only sellable with high rebates against cheaper competitors. Lower entry prices and bring 1.6 MHEV and 210 hp BEV for the mid-range. And bring new door cards for better quality feel ASAP.

In general I think you need more manpower for the launch phase than for the continued production. Could be totally normal.

The original Bobby Car color! 😀 I hope it's just an addition to the existing mint. But it has doors and fabric roof! That's not available yet, right?

JPI — is he really leading Maserati? Or rather a honorary CEO? I only see Santo Ficili in action. Apart from that, did JPI do harm to Alfa? The focus on BEV that leads to delays now was company mandate under Tavares, the Tonale on old platform was done already. How much freedom does a brand CEO have, when he's dependent on group platforms, powertrains, electronics?

As the butt is so damn high, could it have a split rear window like the Mercedes Sportcoupé?

And more closely DS #8, Lancia Gamma. What was the name for this platform variant with lower A pillar? MP2?